Christians in Cinema

Writer/Executive Producer – “That 70s Show”

Dean Batali, executive producer for “That 70’s Show,” and writer for “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” is a Christian. Married for almost 21 years to Beth, his college sweetheart (their anniversary is in July), he has been in Hollywood for 15 years. Dean and Beth have two daughters: Erin, 12, and Katharine, 8. Dean’s cousin is also pretty well-known to television audiences: he’s the Food Network’s Mario Batali.

I’m one of the few sitcom writers who plays in a worship band. I think I might be the only one.

We met Dean at the Biola Media Conference where he was a panelist and presented a workshop. I talked with him the day before he drove up to San Jose for a screen-writers’ conference hosted by the ActOne training program .

You became a Christian at age 18. Can you tell us about that?

Dean: I was raised in a Catholic home and attended a Jesuit high school, but it was kind of social church-going. The idea of having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ wasn’t talked about a lot. I was talking with someone who said some that just clicked for me. I suddenly became aware of the reality of Jesus Christ in the world, and the Holy Spirit’s activity in the world. I said, “I want to give my life to Jesus Christ.” I never expected to hear those words coming out of my mouth.
I went to a very counter-cultural college called Evergreen State College. The core educational process was seminars. In one class, we’d read a book each week and discuss it on Fridays. We’d always have to defend our position. I was the only Christian in that class, and my teacher would ask, “Dean, what do Christians think about this?” I’d say, “Well, I don’t know, but here’s what I think.” So it was really quite interesting in an educational environment to be defending my faith as a new Christian, and be the only Christian in the room.

Flash forward 15 years later. I’m in Hollywood, and I’m still the only Christian in the room. It prepared me quite well. I treasure that time. It really helped my faith develop, on an intellectual level, as well as a spiritual and emotional level. It’s amazing how God prepares us.

How did you meet your wife?

Dean: We met in an opera workshop. We were both singers. We sang in a jazz quartet for a while, and knew each other about two years before we started dating. She wasn’t a Christian when I first knew her, and I was quite an oddity to her. I was the very vocal Christian in the arts class. She eventually came to know God and we started dating.

After college, we worked together for the same theater company. I was writing shows and writing parts for her. I wanted to make people laugh in church in a way that I didn’t hear at church. I was frustrated by the tepid laughter I heard, and wanted to hear real laughter, like what I was hearing in theaters, from playwrights. So we came in with musical theater kind of songs, songs that made people laugh. I was aiming for laughter in kind of a “fractured fairy tale” style. The jokes were very fast-paced.

I heard big laughter, and that was really encouraging. We did a lot of inside jokes about the Bible. For example, Mary throws Elizabeth a baby shower and she (Elizabeth) receives a camel’s hair baby’s blanket and a baby bottle with locusts and honey. So we’re talking about John the Baptist. If you’re a Biblically literate church, you’re going to get that joke, but if not, it will go over your head.

You mentioned musical theater songs. Are you also a musician?

Dean: I’m also a songwriter. I became a Christian when I was 18 years old. In high school I was in theater and played piano. I had considered going into Christian music, maybe worship leading and still write songs that had an appreciation for musical theater. So I was writing for productions and leading worship as well. I’ve been a worship-leader casually and semi-staff-wise at several churches.

I’m one of the few sitcom writers who plays in a worship band. I think I might be the only one. I’m sure there may be one or two others, but there aren’t a lot. I’m very open about my faith at work. When I mention I played in a worship band over the weekend, they have no idea what that means. They ask, “What kind of band do you play in? What kind of music do you play?” It’s so foreign to them.

How did you get from musical theater for churches to writing and executive producing a top-rated TV sitcom?

Dean: I didn’t really get along with the director and was eventually fired. My wife was fired at the same time, mostly because she was married to me. It had been our vision to do theater together, she on the business side, and I would do the creative side. When were fired, it was devastating. We thought we’d do this forever.

Hollywood was in the back of our minds. We both saw it as a mission field and thought Christians should be present there. When all this happened, we decided it seemed to be time to go to Hollywood. We thought we would go for maybe 5 years, and if it didn’t work out, we’d come back to Olypmia, Washington.

When we first came here, she worked as assistant to the head of distribution for the Disney company using her administration skills. God provided a job that gave us health insurance and a steady income while I was making my way as a production assistant and getting jobs in Hollywood. It would have been hard to survive without that, and she had a job she enjoyed in entertainment.

We’re trying to make the darkness less dark.

After our first daughter was born, she would have been happy to go back to work, but a week before my daughter was born, I got my first staff-writing job. It was one of the confirmations we received from God.

Was the job as production assistant your entry into Hollywood?

Dean: I actually started in the mailroom. It was a great place to be and I was meeting all sorts of people in television production. That led to a job on a pilot with these two writers; becoming their assistant, then more of a writer’s assistant to some writers for the third Bob Newhart show, who had run “Cheers” for 7 years. So suddenly I was learning from these great people and just soaking up an education. At the same time, I teamed up with another assistant because we thought we’d be more marketable. And maybe we’d get a job with these “Cheers” writers.

How many different shows did you have scripts produced for before you were attached to a specific show?

Dean: It happened right about the same time. We wrote for four shows before we were put on the staff of “Hope and Gloria”: 2 animated shows and 2 television shows. It was on for about a year and a half in the early 90’s. It had its moments, but never really caught on.

The guy who created “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” read one of our scripts and we were hired onto “Buffy” right at the beginning. The first 13 episodes of the show had been written and produced before it went on air. My experience with “Buffy” started out very good, but about the middle of the second season, I wanted off the show. It began as a light allegory about high school set in the horror genre. But the show became darker and more sexual, and I wanted off.

I still have mixed feelings about having been on the show. I’m not sure I would accept the job today. When I speak, I admit I think the shows I’ve worked on have been damaging to our culture. I think “That 70’s Show” is more damaging because it takes place in reality. Vampires and werewolves aren’t real. 13-year-olds smoking pot and 15-year-olds having sex, both of which we portrayed on “That 70’s Show,” are real. So I can defend “Buffy” from a spiritual viewpoint in that good and evil are clearly defined, and good always won.

Is it okay to use our God-given talent to do things that take people away from him?

As we got into more spiritual things, it troubled me that the demons weren’t defeated by spiritual means. When I had to write an episode about a literal possession, that was a turning point for me. I thought, “I’m not sure I can do this any more,” and that’s when I started wanting to get off the show. We left at the end of the second season.

Did you have the option to refuse writing the script, or were you contractually bound?

Dean: That’s a little complicated. I suppose I could have said “no,” but we don’t get to choose scripts. They’re assigned to us. If I had said no, I probably would have been fired. Or certainly kicked out and fired earlier rather than later. There are stories in Hollywood of Christians who refuse to do work and I respect them for that. And there are stories of Christians who do the work anyway. Is it compromise? I don’t know.

That’s a question I still struggle with. I don’t think compromise is a bad word. I think that we can’t bow before false gods. Daniel was a perfect example of that. Daniel’s skills as an administrator were used to help the Babylonians do the things God had said not to – more efficiently! It’s really troubling to understand that and I struggle with it.

Certainly sometimes God puts as a spy in an enemy camp, which is what Daniel was. I do very much envision myself as a spy in an enemy camp. I ask myself “What can I do to make this different? What can I do to be a little salt here? To show some truth here?” After we left “Buffy,” my partner and I got an offer to work on a new show: “Charmed.” I didn’t want to work on occult stories any more and it seemed to be a knock-off of “Buffy,” so I said no. That is one job I turned down not just for spiritual reasons, but also because it was a place I just didn’t want to be.

How did you get to “That 70’s Show?”

Dean: My partner and I wrote a sample script that was sent onto the creators of “That 70’s Show,” and we got on second season. We stayed on that show for 7 years, although for the last 4 years, we wrote separately. Eventually as we moved up and the other writers left, we became the executive producers (showrunners) with a third person. That gave us more input on the stories. It was a good place to stay because of the reputation gain.

I don’t want to say that the end justified the means, but I do philosophically believe Christians need to be everywhere. Bob Briner’s “Roaring Lambs” is the manifesto of this. Christians need to be places where they typically have not been. In Hollywood, they don’t care what you believe; they want to see if you can do the job. So when your reputation for doing the job increases, then they come to you and say, “What kind of show do you want to do?” You have to put in your time in the trenches before you can write a show that shows more of what you believe. Somebody from outside can’t just write a pilot and get it on the air.

The question is: Is it okay to use our God-given talent to do things that take people away from him? That’s a great question, and again, I don’t have the answer. It is a new theology and philosophy to say that we are called by God to go where the darkness is being done and participate with them on a certain level. We’re trying to make the darkness less dark.

Who are people you go to when you are struggling with these questions?

Dean: I surround myself with people who challenge me. Chris and Kathy Riley, directors of the Act One Writing Program, are screenwriters. Karen Covell, director of the Hollywood Prayer Network, is also a close friend. When I really need prayer, I call her. I feel she’s one of the most powerful women in Hollywood, but she’ll never be mentioned in “Entertainment Weekly.”

With your success, are you able to go to studios and pitch ideas they’re willing to produce?

Dean: I’m invited to meetings and into rooms not a lot of Christians are invited into. Meetings with high-level executives and networks and studios that “want to be in business with Dean Batali.” I have a real desire to see Christian characters in television. I haven’t written a pilot that’s good enough, or I haven’t phrased it quite right so the network said “Yes, we want this show.”

They don’t see how they could market these shows as moneymakers because they don’t look at Christians as consumers.

I’m pitching shows not only, but primarily, about Christian characters, and the response has been tepid. Networks are behind the curve on this. Passion of the Christ changed film, but not yet network television. Executives don’t see the need for these shows; they think they’re not hip. They don’t see how they could market these shows as moneymakers because they don’t look at Christians as consumers.

What will it take to affect Hollywood in the way “Passion” affected the film industry?

Dean: Just one show: the right one. We haven’t had a test case yet of a show run by Christians with Christian characters. As more Christians get into Hollywood and move up the ladder, they’ll be able to say there is an audience for this kind of show; it’s an underserved market.

Right now, most of the executives I’m going to see don’t have any connection with the Christian audience. To be blunt, they’re very suspicious of this audience and don’t want to be associated with them because they view us as judgmental. More complicated than that, they view us all as conservative Republicans, and they’re more afraid of that than our faith. They think we want to make laws that will prevent them from doing things.

At the end of the Biola Media Conference, what did you leave with?

Dean: It was really well-done. I loved that we had to choose from 3 – 7 workshops each time. I left more impressed with the Christians who are working in Hollywood and coming to Hollywood. The people who I meet, the spectrum of speakers to choose from – it’s vastly different from what it was 10 years ago. It’s quite exciting to be part of that, and I’m honored to be able to share my perspective.

I do think we need to be careful about segregating ourselves as artists. There are people in mainstream who look down on those who want to work in Christian films, and there are those who work in Christian films that look down on those who want to work in mainstream. There’s a very wide plough, and we should be pushing it together.

What everybody agreed on is that we should be making good art. I’d like to see the people making art for the Christian market raise the level of art, and what I wish they would do is reach out to some who know better. There are Christians who do know better here in Hollywood. There are enough out here who are skilled that are willing to help. It comes down to the arrogance of artists, all artists. I suffer from it myself. What’s happening is what happened in music. People stopped buying recordings because they weren’t good enough and musicians were forced to get better at their art. The same thing will happen in Christian film.

The Christian films of today are better than the films of 10 years ago, and 10 years from now they’re going to be even better. But I’m a very impatient guy. I want improvement now. And I think audiences do also. What’s selling now won’t sell in 10 years because the audience discernment is growing.

I think they should be watching movies like Dead Man Walking , or “World Trade Center.” Oliver Stone put a Christian character in that movie. They should watch television shows like “Lost” or “House.” Luther and Amazing Grace are movies produced in the last 5 years that are better than others, I think. Steve Taylor’s The Second Chance was one of the better-made Christian films. There were certain flaws, but he told a good story. There was a movie called Woman, Thou Art Loosed that at least aimed for something. It’s a little grittier and accomplishes something, so I’m more drawn to it than, say, The Ultimate Gift. This isn’t an endorsement, but an idea of some of the categories.

Facing the Giants is a well-made film, but I have great objections to what it says and how the story is told. I want to see the stories of people who don’t get pregnant and don’t win the state championship and praise God anyway. I understand the desire for happy endings, but I would have liked to see him get a Chinese baby rather than a brand-new truck. I don’t mind those types of films being made, but I want to see more of the stories that show the grittier side of life.

This is the passion that drives me: let’s make better art for the kingdom of God.

I also want to see him (Alex Kendrick) make 4 or 5 more films and examine his body of work as an artist to see what he’s saying. Right now, he’s saying “all things have happy endings,” and that’s fine if he wants to say that in one film. I’d just like to see a broader picture of God. My desire here is to see the world look at the art Christians are making and say, “It is good.” We are not at that level. So when Hollywood says these things are good, in terms of storytelling and acting, then we’ll have made great strides.

We’re not yet making stuff that can come alongside Hollywood productions and stand on its own.

So how do Christian filmmakers reach that point? There is a lot of criticism offered about Christian films, but what are you going to do to help filmmakers improve?

Dean: This criticism is troubling, and I’m hoping to be the voice to temper it. We can admonish each other without criticizing destructively. I do think we need to be careful with that arrogance and that destructive criticism.

On the other hand, we have to have an honest dialogue about what makes a story, movie and actor good. What is honest art? So I think that’s what we’re moving toward. There are many of us in Hollywood who will return any phone call, any e-mail from someone who is making a movie and wants input. There are also people you can pay: script consultants, DPs, actors, etc.

Some Christians don’t even think that there are Christians in Hollywood, and that they could be contacted say, by someone trying to write a television script. ActOne offers that kind of service. For $200 any filmmaker can send their script to ActOne and get a critique. For $300, they can get a phone critique, and these are from professional script doctors and professional writers. That’s dirt-cheap for anyone who’s serious about this.

So how do we raise the bar? It takes absolute humility with submission by the Christian artist themselves to acknowledge what they don’t know. Too many Christian artists don’t admit what they don’t know and aren’t honest about their talents. That’s not to say they’re not good communicators of the gospel. But they might not have a good eye for casting or lighting or costumes, or be able to write good dialogue. What angers me is artists that can’t say “I’m not really good at this. Somebody out there is better; let’s make better art.” This is the passion that drives me: let’s make better art for the kingdom of God. When the art isn’t as good or as powerful as it can be, it angers me.

I’m in a dilemma when I see films that aren’t as good as what Hollywood can produce. What shall I say? Don’t watch it because it’s not good, or should I tell people to support it? I think Christians should watch it and demand that it be better.

How did you get involved with the ActOne program?

Dean: I heard of the program while I was involved in some other things, and became a mentor for ActOne. I was a teacher the second year, and now I’m on the board of directors. One of the things I’ve done at ActOne is drive the desire to have television writing taught, so now we train television writers. It’s solving part of the problem.

Eventually if your work is good, people will take note of it.

As part of ActOne, I get to talk with churches and pastors sometimes, and I get great satisfaction from talking to people who’ve never thought about Hollywood as a mission field. The great minds of Christianity have not been present in our culture because they’ve gone on to become pastors and professors, writers and Christian speakers, both men and women. So they’ve not become filmmakers or journalists or CEOs. We’ve been absent from the cultural scene. I wonder if maybe that great communicator in their late teens, early twenties, maybe instead of becoming a pastor, should become a filmmaker. And that’s what we’re trying to do at ActOne.

We’re trying to show people that maybe Hollywood is the mission field God is calling them to. Let us help mentor you and help you write scripts. That’s what we’re trying to do. ActOne costs money and it takes a month of your life, but we’re trying to make it more accessible. We do screenwriters’ weekends – 4 around the country – and pack in lots of training about dialogue and storytelling and breaking into Hollywood. It’s cheaper and easier than the month program.

Are there entities that exist for Christians who want to come to Hollywood and connect with other Christians? Other options like ActOne?

Dean: Hollywood Connect is the entry-level place, and they do all kinds of teaching about breaking into Hollywood. Every month they do a “welcome to Hollywood” seminar and hand out literature about churches, Bible studies, prayer groups, and all kinds of ministries. I encourage people to check them out.

A writer has to keep writing scripts. I tell people it was my seventh spec script that was good enough to get me a job. Even if you don’t move to Hollywood, write your scripts and make your movies. Anybody with a camcorder and Final Cut can (and should) make a movie. Then put it on YouTube, and if it’s any good, it will become popular. People should be writing films and making scripts right now where they are. There are about a half a dozen Christian colleges with good filmmaking programs, so I encourage people to attend them. And if not a Christian college, then a secular one with a filmmaking program. The ones who come out here with filmmaking degrees are ahead of everyone else, so you need to get into those programs.

It took me 15 years to get into his position, and that’s what it takes. On average, it takes 5 years from the time people step onto Hollywood soil for them to get their first script or film produced. It’s a long process. Joseph had to spend 7 years in jail before he got to run the land.

The beauty is Christians have a captive audience every week to write for. Pastors are eating this stuff up; for announcements, for sketches, for full-on movies. Make announcements for missions trips, get better and better, and eventually if your work is good, people will take note of it.