Christians Endorsing “Twilight” – Another Oxymoron?
The latest craze to hit theaters is the vampire movie “Twilight,” based on a series of books by author Stephenie Meyer, who happens to be Mormon. Being billed as the next Harry Potter phenomenon by many entertainment sources, it’s also stirring up quite a controversy in the faith community, and in our office.
While some reviewers have identified “family-friendly” elements and the promotion of abstinence, others are appalled that Christians would support what they consider an occult film. Here are some questions we’re grappling with:
- Vampires are fantasy creatures, and go back hundreds of years in mythology. Some historians associate them with Eastern European traditions of exhuming bodies, others associate them with demonic forces that possess bodies.
- Lord of the Rings contains fantasy creatures, including sorcerers, and witchcraft is strongly denounced in Scripture. However, it is embraced as a type of Christ story.
- Some of the same people who are praising “Twilight” have strongly criticized the “Harry Potter” series and those who enjoy it.
Here are several reviews and articles that take up the discussion from both positive and negative sides, from those who consider the success or failure of the film from a critical viewpoint, and those who object to the subject nature. What do you think? Are you having the same conversations?
Reviews:
- Focus on the Family’s Plugged In
- Dove Foundation
- Christianity Today At the Movies
- Hollywood Jesus
- Past the Popcorn
Discussions about subject matter:
- World and Church Trends and Bible Prophecy
- Sola Dei Gloria
- Stephen D. Greydanus on Decent Films Guide
- National Review
- /Film
What a great discussion! So my 2c is that we really need to be excited about Twilight – not necessarily the movie or the subject matter, but the fact that a movie with…
- No nudity
- Very little sexual innuendos
- Very little gory violence
…is so openly embraced by teenagers nationwide! There is a reason why Hollywood was shocked a second time in one year! They don’t quite understand yet how to make a good quality “clean” movie. Twilight is the closest thing I have seen come out of Hollywood so far. The Harry Potter series fall under the same umbrella.
Now is it good to embrace witchcraft & demonic themes? Absolutely not, but sometimes it is more important to appreciate the progress rather than the end result. Hollywood will always veer towards themes where daring jumps between trees, car stopping strength and mayhem-causing-magic will allow them to make fantastical worlds & actions on screen. Appreciate the underlying stories being cleaned up, and keep voting “family friendly” with your money.
~TK
December 9th, 2008 at 7:05 am
Excellent point: appreciate the progress, because that’s what it is. One step at a time, one film at a time!
December 9th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
I like what you had to say TK. I think often times we forget that this is a lost world that does not know Christ, yet we expect non-believers to act like believers.
I hope we can have the perspective that even if a movie is considered immoral, that Christ would be there with the making of that movie. My hope is that there would be a believer on that set that allowed non-believers to see Christ through them.
December 9th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
As long as a believer is not violating their conscience all in the process of trying to win souls it is fine. One must have the conviction of what they can or cannot permit, what they can handle and cannot handle (no matter who or what or how many is doing it). There are some things that I can handle but others cannot and vice-versa and I have learned that it is an issue of grace and one’s calling from God that will determine what and how you do certain things no matter the industry one is involved. Some films cannot be generalised no matter their content (appropriate or inappropriate).
December 10th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
I believe we can forget that a movie set is a work place environment; yes it has a lot more fame than working at Home Depot. Most of people on set are below the line personnel who are not making millions of dollars. They don’t control the content of the film; they are just trying to help make the best product possible. Yet, we seem to make a judgment whether a good family film is the only place God can be glorified or reside. I am in no way saying that we shouldn’t make judgments on content. Absolutely, we should make judgments on content of films, but separate the content from the people. I think a majority of the population has no clue in what is actually takes to make a movie. All they can see is the final product, and they miss out on the behind the scenes relationships that may involve someone coming to know Jesus Christ.
December 10th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Ah Adam, please read my post (and my posts in the horror – Christian oxymoron) well. I was not distinguishing the movie work place and my quote “I have learned that it is an issue of grace and one’s calling from God that will determine what and how you do certain things no matter the industry one is involved.” states that to effect. Rather I was discussing the fact and idea that what one takes into themselves (food or movies but in this case we are talking about films) must be considered on the degree of their own conscience and not on the popular opinion of others no matter how trendy. It must be something the person can adequately not have a problem with regardless of others position on the matter. There are some films no matter how U or PG-13 it is, I just will not watch them and then there are others that I will watch that are R rated and I will watch them. As my walk with Christ grows I have found there are some things I just won’t consider and then are others that I will but there are not necessarily Christian per se but they honour and glorify God. I think the key thing is learning to be not under control of a thing but rather in control of one self even as one is willingly under the control the Holy One. That is beauty of walking with Christ Jesus you get know yourself better even as you know Him.
December 12th, 2008 at 7:24 am
I would take issue with the film having “very little sexual innuendo.” The entire drama in the film is about Bella’s desire for Edward to indulge his urges, and his struggle to control his impulses. The whole thing is about sex!
December 15th, 2008 at 11:20 am
I agree, with the exception that the whole film is about dealing with the seemingly uncontrollable impulses, and ultimately Edward manages to control them en spite it seeming impossible to do it.
So overall I think the message in that is that even if an urge seems overwhelming and uncontrollable, it doesn’t give you the right to simply give up control.
Now tell me that is not a message that many teenagers (And for that arugment anybody with red blood in their veins) need to hear!
December 15th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
I don’t have an issue with the film’s message on sexuality. I just wanted to point out that it has a sub-text of sexual tension and desire that is very plain. It’s something like a half entendre.
December 15th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
I have read the first two books and stopped.
My friends have finished the series and if they follow through on how the books are written, you’re looking at a Harlequin romance scene… or two.
It’s one big forbidden romance story with an actually pretty mortifying scene in the second book. It sent chills down my back.
From what I’ve heard though, it was a bad movie all around, but that’s just what I’ve heard.
December 16th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
The next movie won’t have the same director. Catherine Hardwicke, who directed “Thirteen” and The Nativity Story (interesting slate of films) directed the first one but is not attached for the others.
That will change the films, but it’s still coming from the same source materials.
December 16th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
I have the heard that. It will be interesting to watch and see what happens. It always is.
December 16th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
I have not and will not read the books or see the movie, my 13 year old sister has gotten obsessed with this book she read the first one 17 times, and dyed her hair black now its the whole vampire thing, my 21 year old sister is now reading them and acting crazy. I believe there is a spirit that comes along with the territory. I am not afraid because we have victory over satan and his demons. I just have noticed that the same things happen whenever another person I know and love reads these books! Words are powerful they have the ability to change our minds Why else would it be so important to read the bible, and why else would the Lord tell us not to partake in certain things…He knows what he is talking about! but on another note, God is on the throne and All things work together for good to those who love Him. I guess what I am trying to say is that Twilight has become a “god” in a lot of peoples lives, it gave them some kind of feeling that they were looking for when all they really need is Jesus! we should say a prayer against all forces of evil no matter how “innocent” it seems. The devil is very subtle. but God Wins!!! PTL
December 27th, 2008 at 9:45 am
As an 18 year old male I’m not exactly the intended audience for this film, yet I’m curious to possibly see it when it comes out on DVD/On Demand with the buzz it’s created. I heard an awful lot about how fanatic girls were over the film, Edward and the whole thing. The one thing that resonated to me about that is all those girls seemed to desire one thing – they wanted to be adored, loved by a (good looking
guy who would be faithful and willing to sacrifice anything for them. Somebody like Edward. I find that really interesting, given that we live in a society where messing around romantically is what’s expected. A guy may get intimate with a girl one day and then leave her for another the next. A girl may float between numerous guys. I can’t help but be fascinated that even in our “progressive” society the age old desire of a girl to be swept up off her feet by one man who will be her Prince and soulmate for life is still very much there and alive. The reaction to the books and films shows that.
January 17th, 2009 at 8:00 pm
Very good point Ian – very good point that you have made. I hope that young men and women (especially in the Western world where relationships are highly undervalued and ignored over material things and money) will see that deep down everyone wants to be loved deeply wholeheartedly with a single commitment to them and noone else. I encourage you to remain faithful to God and yourself it will pay off immensely especially in your relationship life and marriage (if you desire to do so).
January 20th, 2009 at 9:06 am
Thanks a lot Leslie, I accept your encouragement whole heartedly. Living for God has to be the greatest adventure ever, but in a world with plenty of distractions one needs to be encouraged to honor and stay focused on Him in the midst of it all. Especially to honor my future bride always as well, should God in His time have such a one for me to love and care for.
January 20th, 2009 at 9:05 pm
well, most anything could be justified.
BUT, what about her soul?
She saves her soul to give it to the darkness???? And, that is her only way to ‘live’.
Sorry that is so wrong. Aren;t we to guard our souls? Do we not have one enemy of our souls?
The Bible has many examples of shadows or types of Jesus, and the enemy. So would not Edward be a ‘type’ of the enemy, certainly not Jesus.
January 27th, 2009 at 6:44 pm
We, as Christians, are to be “in” the world, not “of” it. We must be aware of what is in the pop culture to use it as connection points to those who don’t know God. Jesus did. Jesus told stories about farming, slaves, kingdoms, and many other subjects that people knew very well, then used those subjects and themes to explain the Gospel. The world is staying away from churches, but if we can use a popular movies to talk to someone we meet along the way, in this life to explain the Gospel in themes they would understand, we will have more success in our call to go into all the world, and preach the Gospel to everyone.
April 4th, 2009 at 6:57 am
Jeff, I’d have to disagree with you on the standpoint that the subjects you brought up are everyday applicable subjects, including slavery, unfortunately.
Vampires, to me, are not. Does that mean we call a boycott? No. That would be way too dramatic and make a bigger deal out if it than what it really is.
You can always learn something from everything, but if we keep using themes that the world produces and adapting them to our purposes, we lose our salt.
Where is our originality?
April 6th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
I started reading the first book after seeing about half an hour of the film…..
I got tottally obsessed.
But the funny thing is, is that as I was physically picking up the book, I heard God definitly say “Your stepping out of My Kingdom”, but I still picked it up, even though I knew I shouldnt have done.
And now all my (non-Christian) friends are talking obbsessivly about it, and how romantic it is, and how its only a book.
And to be frank, I’m worried.
I get easily obbsessed by things, and yet my deepest desire is to know God, not Edward Cullen.
And yet its always in the back of my mind.
HELP!
April 27th, 2009 at 10:29 am
Melissa,
If you’re worried about being obsessed, take the advice of scripture: Flee from it. Easier said that done, I KNOW! Put on a CD with praise music or tune in a Christian station. There are certain things I know I can’t read or watch, or my mind goes places it shouldn’t. That’s why we as a culture love movies – we’re visual and love experiencing things through others.
April 27th, 2009 at 11:18 am
I don’t see anyhing wrong with the movies or books. I have read all 4, well 5 books actually. The fifth is only a partial version available online. But it did not make me go dye my hair or do anything to change myself or my beliefs. And I truly believe that anyone that would go to such lenghts as to dye their hair, or get obsessed etc. etc. etc. has some issues with self esteem and instead of criticizing those loved ones, I would really try to talk to them and find out what they feel is missing in themselves. If you are reallythat impresurable its not a book or movie to blame. My sister went a little overboard, and when I talked to her several times I found out she was being abused by her now ex boyfriend and was escaping into the books. I am a christian and I also love the books but they do not change my views on anything. They are for entertainment ONLY. And if you are confident in your faith you can seperate the 2 and see that you can enjoy a book and still hold to your faith. Funny how I have never had the issue of aything, book, movie, or persons to make me even consider anything other than my wholehearted belief in my Saviour. I guess I am different or something but I never thought as books and movies offensive to my faith except for things such as porn, but even those I do not judge those that watch and or are in them. I will never be the one to judge whats in the heart of another person, thats not my role in the time I am on this Earth. I love my God and all of his children unconditionally. But thats just me and my opinion. Thank you for allowing me to express that.
May 1st, 2009 at 9:14 pm
christna can read. it’s for dchrista to be twihar-ds. I am a devotu chirttian who i also a twihard. yes I diagree with Bella’s sprualtiy but I lvoe hte chrisitna mroals in htere and ths roy and Edward and I do llove Bella. and i klvoe tpsehneie meye. hosently th twilgith series, the bible and 17 magaizne is all I read these days. and twilight is my fave movie and to ther peson above , maybe it was becasue the Lord knew that you would becoem one fo thsoe obbsed peopel who would forget about God. but God never told me that maybeh knew I can seprate the difference. but onone’s forcing you to read it.
May 21st, 2009 at 10:07 am
I believe the movie is deception!!! If your a christian the bible sais to come out from among them and be seperate you are not your own you have been bought with a price. You are not to be a lover of this world. So come out from it. We can always justify anything and make it sound religious but the truth is that is sin. God nows what is best for us. we are not to talk about things done in darkness. This movie is nothing but darkness. It is another Jesus not the real deal. Remeber The devil is a deciever. There is too much decption amongst so called christians. Its time for every christian to go back to the bible and put christ at the center of their lives then they wouldn’t be so decieved. Turn away from these kind of movies. Your true witness be one of total abandonment for Christ, not religion. If you lift HIM up HE will draw all men unto HIM. Lift up Christ not a movie.
June 19th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
First of all I have not watched this movie, I have been tempted, my 12 year old was tempted, and ended up watching it after I had advised against it, okay I mean told her she could not,watch the movie, fell to peer pressure. My daughter was so upset, she carried her mistake for a while before she could no longer keep it from me. She told me she was so confused by it, she wished she had not watched it, along with the fact that she was told not to and how it made her feel. I have really been wrestling with this whole movie Twilight thing based on my Christian beliefs. I read all your comments, I can see the need for some of you to find something good out of the bad that we do. Its called Justifiaction and rationalisation! If we can find (Precieve to find) something okay in it, like Adam and Eve in the garden, The sepent said in Genesis 3.4-5. v4 “You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman. v5 “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” Satan justified and rationalised his deception to get Eve to sin, to turn away from Gods good and loving protection. What happened to Adam and Eve, did they physically die? (that was satans implications a destortion of Gods truth, satan knew far well that they would not die a physical death, but a spiritual death and separation from God and satan succeeded!) God love us so much that he gave us all free will, to make a choice, to choose his way or our way, our way will always lead to death, maybe not a physical death but possibly physical but definetly spiritually if we continue to not heed his suprem knowledge of what is good and bad for us. Here are some scripture that we should all meditate on and pray for God to speak to us regarding this topic.
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
2 Corinthians 5:17
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.
Ezekiel 36:26-27
Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
Romans 12:2
May the love, grace, wholeness and peace which come only from God and Christ be with you all, both now and forevermore Amen!
June 25th, 2009 at 10:27 am
Here is my second post – with my swear-word taken out for publishing. Ironic that Christians will censor that yet not occultic themes they watch.
I am going to watch Twilight this week, not because I agree with it or its premise but because I am tired of hearing “You haven’t watched this movie, its actually great!”
The movies are not “actually great”. Mainly this is because they are attached to the occult which is attached to Satan who gets chucked in a pit and roasted alive in the end. And no, Satan is not the “King of Hell”. He’s a washed-up, has-been dark angel.
I’m with Katrina. You go girl.
Everyone else, continue to read Twilight. You know you will anyway because you deliberately ignore God’s Word. I have no argument with you, only pity for your pathetic level of discernment.
November 10th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Go Brandt, Kimberly, Katrina
The funny thing is that people are swept away by a fake sense of love and romantic feelings. People are so blind Satan does a great job. This book series does a great job getting girls who are immature, prideful, selfish, and if they call themselves Christians are lying to you. If a person and God forbid a Christian can become so OBSESSED in a book series that promotes world thinking, lust, and foolish cravings when in total truth they went cant even go through the Bible in a year. That is just sad. I will pray for you who are blinded by the devil.
November 19th, 2009 at 2:07 am
It’s me again;
I’m still wrestling with this whole Twilight series. My Daughter was 12 when she watched it (13 when I wrote my first response) against my telling she could not. Now My daughter(13) want’s to watch the sequel. The silver linning here is, she was invited to a birthday party this weekend. She just told me last night that the party is a sequel party. I was upset that she obviously didn’t learn form the first time, the things she told me about how it made her feel; however (here’s the silver linning) She told me before, she didn’t hide it. She is still insisting that she should get to go. I have not made my mind up, okay yes I have. I do not want her viewing the movie. I know she will be mad at me. Here’s the clincher, “I don’t serve her, I serve God”. If she sneaks around again and watches it, then it’s on her again. I have herd the sequel is even stronger material than Twilight. Just like I said earlier, it’s a gromming process, like porn, Pot, alcohol etc.. It all leads into something much stronger, harder and in the end something harder to recover from. Yes, you can recover thats what I said, recover but only through the blood of jesus.
People still make their own choices, suffer the consequenses, unfortunetly they bring others down with them(usually) in the process.
If you think about it, have you ever (most people) noticed, that you usually don’t over indulge in something the first time. There is a reason.Think about it! You probably would have a bad reaction (response) and you probably wouldn’t indulge it again. Which in reality for somethings that would be better. like drugs, if you had a bad enough reaction the first time, you probably wouldn’t do it again. But see, those things are the root to all evil. God gives satan some ground in these things. The bible says to reframe from the things that alter your mind because satan can go to work in a mind distorted by those things. Remeber “YOU” are choosing to go there,”free will”. Now it’s open season…..Like an addict will tell you “One is too many and a thousand is never enough”. Under the influience of anything un-Godly leaves us susceptible (vulnerable)Satan starts telling us, “See that was not so bad”, “Try a little more”, “Now a little more”. Your hooked!! Porn, PG13 movies, you know the ones; the ones that should be R, Alcohol, Pot, harmless flirting, it all starts small, but ends BIG! I guess the thoughts I’d like to leave here is,
“God says in Matthew 6:24 (New International Version)
24″No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.
(Put in the struggle you face; Pot, drugs, porn , lust, and so on….)
There comes a time where you have to make a choice, what will it be? Will you choose the flesh, friends, your kids, your boss, your spouse, or, “Your God”?
I still make some bad choices, I struggle with Co-Dependency, I tend to make decisions to please others, boy do I suffer. I’m constanly having to come to the cross, Jesus is there to forgive me, just as he will for you.
Celebrate Recovery (Christian based 12 step program) is awesome and helps me out.
Enough of my preaching… Love you all!! Take Care, stay strong..
November 19th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
people become tempted through people that were tempted and after they give in they hope they dont fall by themselves, hey satan does’nt want to go down by himself. I’m so sure Eve realized something changed in her when she gave into the forbidden. What all did she tell Adam to convince him that the bible doesn’t say?
When we give in and find we didnt die and we convince others to do the same we have become so fooled. After the give in there was something different in them, because they seen each other naked and were embaressed, they no longer wanted to talk with God, they hid from God. They used to walk with God but now they walked away from God. My question is can you talk and walk with God still after you watch things you know God condemns in His Word. Even as christians we have all fallen into temptations but do you remember the fight you had struggle through to erase things in your head and the condemnation you feel when you try to raise your hands in church. Something does change in you. You know God can and will forgive you but guilt makes you feel your taking advantage of his sacrifice on the cross. Shall we continue to sin so the grace of God can abound? God forbid.
November 20th, 2009 at 11:34 pm
I’ve read and seen previews of this movie; Twilight and it is an
abomination to GOD, because it is Occultic or satan’s domain. Many professing christians such as my daughters refuse to believe me even when I show them in the Bible, Deuteronomy 18:9-12,Galatians 5:16-21, Ephesians 5:11, Eph 6:11-12,instead they are offended by the truth of Christ’s Word not mines, I’m just a
vessel. They justify this occultic film. Its like what GOD says doesn’t mean anything. In Romans 12:2,we are commanded to not conform to this world, or IJohn 2:15-17, “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father(GOD)is not in him.” I know from experience that the truth of Jesus Christ is not popular to either christians or any other people. Satan just loves it when we are deceived by his clever, subtle wiles or tricks, he makes things appear pleasant and good. So I pray for them and others who are fooled by satan and his demons. They are real fallen or spiritual beings. We have authority over satan and his kingdom which is this world (temporary)in Jesus Christ’s name thru our faith in Him. He didn’t die that horrible death on the cross for nothing, He died and was resurrected for all of us. So we should not continue to sin against Him by honoring satan. I say this out of love for my neighbors on this earth. I urge my daugters and all of us to Repent or turn away from sin before its too late. Jesus’s servant
November 24th, 2009 at 12:29 am
No one is going to hell for watching this movie! We need to get overselves.
November 24th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
Adam says:
No one is going to hell for watching this movie! We need to get over overselves.
(Edit, left out a word)
November 24th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
Adam says:
Adam says:
No one is going to hell for watching this movie! We need to get over ourselves.
(Edit, misspelled a word, wow this is going smooth!)
November 24th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
The movie has wrong thinking and garbage in it, but so do a lot of movies out there.
Some argue that Edward is fighting against his evil nature, which is good. Others say he is deceiving Bella. In reality both are happening.
People have different convictions about this movie – or watching it at least. I am going to assume (for the sake of sanity) that people who are truly Christians are not actually INTO the occult.
Just…DON’T BE A MORON when you watch movies. Evaluate what is going on. Think through it. Because in the end, you are accountable for the attitudes you harbor in your heart and what you allow to shape it.
I don’t believe in a moronic lame Christianity. I believe in a Christianity that is discerning when it comes to culture. When you watch the movie, realize that there are things in it opposed to your Christian values. Or don’t watch it. But please – if you are going to be a moron and simply post things like “Edward is like Jesus” or “Twilight is good because I can watch whatever I want to and it won’t affect me” – resist the urge. The last thing we need is more postings from the brain-dead.
I won’t be watching this movie again because I find it personally offensive. And though I watched it once I am not going to break out my ouija board. It’s not gonna happen.
November 24th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
And Adam – no one said a person was going to hell for watching the movie. Do you know what a straw man is? It’s when you say that your opponent said something they didn’t actually say.
And you implied those of us who think Twilight sucked were condemning the fans to hell. You judged us. That’s very un-Christlike of you.
lol…
November 24th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
Okay, okay! People listen, I admire those who are standing firm on Christ/Christianity however; Please avoid using judgmental characterizations, the use of words like, moron and brain dead.
Words like lost, or spiritually dead or siritually sick are more on the mark. Be better than the Pharisees. God said at the sermon on the mount in “Matthew 5:20″, “For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven”. What this is saying in plain english is, be careful when professing spirituality, ie. things you say; calling someone a moron or brian dead. You are professing chistianilty, while insulting God child, saved or not. Be better than that, love, love, love this is our greatest commandment, in all things love, as I (God) first loved you!
Brandt, You are very knowledgeable (God Given and Blessed), and God is using you in a mighty way, be careful with his blessing.
Keep up the great witness, God loves you.
November 24th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Sorry… yeah. I am learning a lot about responding to culture through this movie. Basically, here is my take. Christians who are redeemed should not enjoy this movie. It is against everything we stand for.
However, think about it – this stinkin’ movie has inspired more conversation than ever. If Satan does intend to deceive with this movie – be careful, but also realize that when people ask you about it you now have an answer.
Adam – really. Sorry for suggesting you were brain-dead, etc. etc. We can turn our minds off when interacting with culture however, and that is the mistake. I hope you would agree. But truly, I apologize for calling you or anyone brain dead, etc.
I am privileged to post with some people who have a heart for following Christ. May Jesus guide our thoughts and our hearts as we interact with culture. May we share more grace than judgment and yet be discerning and speak out. (Wow, what a tough job.)
Okay,
Take care,
Brandt
November 24th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
Brandt,
Exactly my thoughts, “this movie has inspired conversation”.Think about the conversations about our faith and sharing it! That is so awesome. You had an opportunity to blow off my comment, but you didn’t! You totally humbled yourself and made ammends! What an awesome witness for Christ, and for your Christian witness. The Angels are smiling at you today!
satan wins only if we let him!
Have a blessed Day and Happy Thankgiving.
A little side note about Thanksgiving to those who do not know!
Thanksgiving was originally a day for the people to give thanks to God for the blessings he had provided. The first year in the new world thousands died, then the next year after serviving, they all sat down to commerate and give thanks to God. God is always there to provide for the needs of those that are faithful to Him. What seems like an impossibility for us is nothing for Him.
We have removed any reference of God from Thanksgiving today, and most young people think it began as nothing more than a feast involving Indians and Pilgrims. It was so much more than that.
November 24th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
Brandt, Don’t worry about it, I was not offended.
November 24th, 2009 at 5:47 pm
If it is “okay” to be “just” entertained by what is occultic as long as you separate it from reality, then it is “okay” to be “just” entertained by any sin, homeosexuality, murder, rape . . all can be very intriquing with good romance splattered in. The real problem is “woe to those who call evil good and good evil” Isaiah 5:20. The same person who obeys God to have no part of witchcraft, wizards – vampires or other, will justify being entertained by a good suspense or thriller movie, or even a love story or comedy filled with fornication,etc,as long as it doesn’t show the “parts”, or worse, even if it does.
If by the end of a movie (or book, or any form of entertainment), sin is not identified as sin, and it’s end result exposed (consequence and punishment), then we are purposely setting wicked things before our eyes (Psalm 101:3). And even when the end result exposes or deals with the sin, if the focus has been on indulging our carnal senses, we are still justifying sin.
In our current “christian” culture it seems we want to see how close we can get to sin without it truly being sin. “christians” live like the world in an attempt to “win them over” to Christ ????? That is NOT what Paul meant when he said he became all things to all people so he might win some. He didn’t mean he would rape or murder or be homosexual so he could win them to Jesus, and he didn’t mean he would indulge in pornography, go clubbing, or watch witchcraft/occult (choose your sin) themes to find analogies in their sin to win them to Christ.
Those who truly live righteous WILL be persecuted. The righteous will be called “holier than thou”, “judgemental”, “critical”, even when not judging THEM, and only judging the ACTION. For we cannot judge the PERSON who entertains themselves with wizards, vampires, etc… as we simply cannot know that person’s heart or where they truly are with the Lord, but we CAN judge the ACT of entertainment by these means, and expose it, and not participate in it, and pray that God will reveal his Truth to those who are truly his, proclaiming Jesus name, calling evil good, and pray that he will call them out from it and that they will listen and obey.
November 24th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
Lori,
This is big assumption that people who may enjoy the movie “Twilight” are somehow are enjoying sin. If we have to be so on guard that we never can see a movie because the story may include some sinful act, then tell me what movie is completely absent of sin? Is Passion of the Christ an ok movie to watch? May be Christian Cinema needs to close their doors.
November 25th, 2009 at 10:25 am
Lori: I am so confused right now. I know where I stand on Twilight, etc. but I don’t know that seeing someone swear is a sin. The world often does not realize these things are wrong.
If I lust I am sinning, for sure… but what about watching a movie where the actors are swearing?
This has HUGE ramifications for me as I broke up with my girlfriend and am now going out with her again, only to break up for good. She sees no problem with some movies she watches.
I feel like a complete jerk… but I don’t want to sin. I feel like I may have to be single for the rest of my life. This is brutal.
Adam – How do you know that when we watch Shrek, etc. we aren’t in fact sinning? You still haven’t answered the whole Psalm 101:3 verse that Lori brought up.
Perhaps Christian Cinema does need to close down. What would be worse – not watching a film and finding out we were legalistic or realizing in the end that we had caved in to culture?
Lori: Paul references some stories of the gods, philosophers, etc. that he knew. Does this mean he worshiped a false god? No. But was he indulging in lust, etc? No.
I am so confused right now it isn’t funny. Lori, I think you have taken a more direct approach in dealing with this passage though. Why is everyone afraid to deal with Scripture? It’s life-giving. Sigh… this world is nuts.
Brandt
November 25th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
To All,
One thing I’ve learned in my 40+ years is the one biggest thing and the hardest, No matter what you say, the minute someone feels you are trying to control something in their life (even when you are just educating them on God’s Word) they will rebel, even God fearing (healthy God Fear) christians will rebel. The rebelling feeling is our sin nature fighting against what we (if we have invited the Holy Spirit to dwell in us) know to be the Holy Spririt speaking to us on a peticular matter.God’s children or non believers who want to enjoy certain things, will always find justification for indulging in those areas.
People will always try to find a loop hole in anything they need to justify. My wife isn’t putting out, so I need the porn, atleast I’m not cheating on her with some other woman.
Any true Christian would no with out me Quoting scripture, Gods take on that justification, if not I challenge you to read the sermon on the mount, found in Matthew chapter 5: 27-28 (on just looking at another woman)
What about little white lies, “A half truth is a whole lie”!
Sin, is Sin.
By the way the definition of Sin is “Missing the Mark”.
I suggest anyone struggling really ought to study the Sermon On the Mount, it answers alot of the gray area you all are debating about.
God is saying, DONT GIVE satan ANY FOOTHOLD in your life. Don’t give him anything.
Do you want God with you all the time?? GOD WILL NOT ENTER INTO UNGODLINESS. Would God watch these types of movies, read these book, look at porn, steal, Absolutly not. So, he will not be with you during that time, So, who is??? satan, waiting to take ground in your life.
God loves all of us, he’s only wanting to protect you. Go watch your movies, read your books, do whatever you want, God is not stopping you. But remember, YOU are the one inviting satan in, maybe not personally, he does not need you too. He will bust right on in…God waits to be invited.
When we start telling God whats good for us, you know what he will do, step back and say okay..
When we do this with satan, when we tell him no, God says its bad, I wont go there, what happens, satan fights harder, all out war to win us, and if we are playing with fire (justifing why we can watch, read, or do things we want) we are playing into satans hands.
But all this won’t mean a thing if you are not in full surrender of your life to Christ.
You have to be willing to alow God to create a new heart in you. Listen to God.
He doesn’t expect you to stop all things right away, to give everything up, just to be willing.
God will do the work.
Have a great Thanksgiving.
November 25th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
Brandt,
(My) answer is in verse 2, (Psalm 101:2)
I will be careful to lead a blameless life—
when will you come to me?
I will walk in my house
with blameless heart.
It’s a lyrical song, does it mean that this person will never have blame, absolutely not. Can Kimberley define for us what vile movies we shouldn’t watch? I don’t think there is a list of movies in the back of your Bible that have been approved for you to watch. My point is, enough of the litmus test for people who watch movies we don’t agree with. If they are believers, God will deal with them in his timing if he’s not thrilled about it what they are doing. If they are non-believers, beating them over the head with scripture may not do much for them.
November 25th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
Adam: Good point about the non-believer thing. lol…I’m trying to remember the last time I beat a non-believer over the head with Scripture. Wait, never…
Believe it or not, I am too tired to “fight” with anyone. I’m simply trying to follow God, bro.
I appreciate your verse – I’m sorry that my tone may have turned you off “helping” me. God bless you, Brandt.
November 25th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
Wow just like I said people hear what they want. I’m wasn’t telling anyone what they should or should nt do! Its what the word of God says. Reread the end of my last post! The spirit of God will lead u.
November 25th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
meh.. all I’m saying is I’m single now. My girlfriend and I are no longer seeing each other because I would not want this material around in the house if I were married.
Come to think of it, I’m thinking about a lot of things. I don’t want to be legalistic, but neither do I want to displease the Lord.
I don’t care if I’m single – I woke up the past couple mornings before 5:00 with a burning conviction that I had to separate myself from my girlfriend, because she was involved in this stuff.
We had some great times doing devotions together, we set up good boundaries, etc. In the end though, it came down to a disagreement over this. I wish it hadn’t.
Any guys out there who agree with Twilight, she is a fantastic girl. Just treat her right – and I hope you both see the light and realize how much of a pull and a heaviness that stuff is.
God will guide you and open your eyes if you are truly His. No questions. I echo Kimberly’s thought about God leading. It’s in His court, not ours.
God bless you, Kim. It’s people like you who keep me accountable for not flying off the handle.
November 26th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
Lori – you and Kim are fantastic. I sincerely want to avoid legalism as much as I want to “set my eyes on godly things”. I see the pitfalls of both sides.
sigh… I really desire like-minded community. Is there a way we can exchange emails?
Adam – I’m not shutting you out, just I think we may see things differently bro. Pray for me that I may discern truth and error. I will pray the same for you. Apart from this whole debate you are probably a great guy.
Brandt
November 26th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
singleness + following jesus = amazing.
wait a second
anything + following jesus = amazing!
November 26th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
I’m not online everyday, so just catching up. It’s not legalistic to love God (Jesus) enough in return for so great and FREE salvation to be willing to give up entertainment for him in pursuit of honoring him, or to stay as far away from what “may” be sin with a better safe than sorry motto. One can only choose this for themselves. When you tell others they MUST do so, it becomes legalistic. You can only share what you are doing (or not doing, or giving up) for your love for Jesus, and share what you believe regarding the ISSUE or controversy at hand.
True, few, and VERY few, will be able to part with the gods of entertainment in our culture. Justification even using God’s Word, or re-defining entertainment as “witnessing opportunity” will take precedence over what is clearly outlined in Scripture. God desires true obedience, not sacrifices (to witness, etc) that cost nothing and please our carnal senses. That’s between them and God.
In response to the comments about my post, I was referring to people who call themselves or believe themselves to be Christians who name the name of Christ and set before their eyes all types of sin that is made to LOOK good, right or exciting (be it adultery, fornication, lying, stealing, murdering, witchcraft, occult themes, people-idol worship, or whatever) and excuse it in the name of entertainment or not being really real in real life. I would not expect unbelievers to care much about what they watch or are entertained by or how often they need entertainment. They are doing what is expected.
It is the believers who you can’t tell from the unbelievers who join the unbelievers in calling it great entertainment when in fact it dishonors if not blasphemes Jesus Christ in calling evil good. It is evil to literally give (or even WANT to give) your soul to anyone but Jesus. There is a Spirit within ME that cannot watch this romanticized in a movie. I can’t understand why a Christian would call this good entertainment or a witnessing opportunity. They may be saved, loving and serving God and I don’t judge THEM or whether or not they are truly Christians or love God because they go to and are entertained by such. I know I am saved, loving and serving God, and I am SURE that though God has brought me so very far, that I have a long way to go and that these same people could probably point out error in my life (hopefully I’d be willing to listen and humble myself to change). But I do judge the movie based on God’s Word and call sin, sin. Fictional vampires that assume occultist being or power simply do not honor or glorify Christ.
I have not (and will not ever) watch this movie. I have read MANY reviews BOTH sides. I know many Christians who have gone to the movie and listen to all they have to say and do not argue points with them. If asked, I do give my convictions, but they are mine.
November 28th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
And to Brandt, I do commend you on a wise choice. You could be married to a wonderful person, but the things invited in via media by this person would create constant tension and would bring daily mind battles for you engage in that would require endless time and energy that would so much better be spent elsewhere! This person would not care, because to them; entertainment comes before relationship, and possibly before anything. Entertainment is the hardest thing to give up and the thing most universally justified in our Christian culture. You are better single until God brings someone like-minded in the area of media/entertainment into your life.
November 28th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
I just re read your post again . . . we can be aware of things in our culture without participating in them and being entertained by them. I’m aware of homosexual issues without joining them in a parade, and movies have trailers and reviews. I’m certain Paul knew of things in the same way.
November 28th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Actually I would have been married to a typical lukewarm Christian who wanted me to lower my standards. Yuck.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:54 am
Good afternoon,
I hope everyone had a wonderful Thanksgiving.
Brandt,
I want to share something.I am so amazingly proud of you, and I don’t even know you.
I am in a marriage that struggles daily. My husband is a fence rider (one foot on one side one on the other)In the begining of our 7 years together (5 pre-marriage) 2 married. I knew alot of things about him that were red flags. I was so desperate for love and marriage that I compromised my beliefs for my need to control, to play God.
He, for the most part only believes in God alone, not really Jesus. He struggles with being the spiritual leader of our family (Hes not being the leader) My husband struggles w/addiction (he has 1 years clean/sobber form drugs & alcohol) Struggles with porn addition, which Im pretty sure he still hides that he’s still indulging in. He avoids me and the kids with activities out side the home.
When he gets home from work, I never know when because he does not tell me he is home, he gets busy outside the minute hes home.
I try to set boundries, I go to counseling, and support groups.
The reason I shared all that was because unlike you, I was not strong enough in my faith way back when.. Now even-though we are married, go to church, go to recovery type programs, it does’nt change things much. I am not “Evenly Yoked” with my husband.
I pray that God/Jesus will help my husband and my marriage, and me. I have learned alot about myself, addiction, and recovery.
If I was the person then that I am today, I probably would have made better decisions about my future.
I did not trust God/Jesus, I do now. I’m so tired of playing God. Trying to control the outcome or thinking I can.
You are so wise and obiediant to God, your waiting for the right woman will be well worth your wait. Not saying you won’t have srtuggles, but you will be one unbreakable team.
I have made alot of mistakes, and I still struggle, the difference now is, I’m really trying to do the right things now.
I herd a great paprable the other day;
Living in the room of, Pleasing God or in the Room of Grace.
If one is living in the room of pleasing God, you most likely are living legalistically, for example:
Do you tithe 10% because God says too, and if you can’t you feel like you are disappointing God, and you will suffer some sort of ramification? (Wrong Room)
If you are living in the Room of Grace, you know God and Jesus.
(Right room)
Example:
You know that Jesus came to free us from of our past, present, and future sin. (meditate on that a minute)
Grace is a gift, you don’t deserve it nor can you earn it.
When you sin in the room of grace, you know its covered, and you know there is forgiveness if you just ask for it in Jesus name.
You are not trying to please God,(win favor) you are trying to live as Jesus calls us to live, if you miss the mark, you don’t give up, you don’t feel condemed. You keep moving forward.
Alot of pepole get caught up in the Room of Pleasing God. It’s not by our works that we are saved, but by Grace only….
Grace is the bridges that bridges us over the gap(sin) and God. Imagine we are on one side of a cliff, sin in the middle of us in a pit and God on the otherside.
The bridge(Grace)covers over the sin, connecting us to God. It’s not mere man, it’s the sin man commits that separates us from God.
Jesus is the bridge. Cool eh!
Anyway, Brandt, keep on keep’n on.
Love in Christ,
Kimberley
November 30th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Hi Kimberley. This is Lori. I too have made numerous bad decisions throughout life for which I now bear the consequences. I blame no one but take responsibility in doing the best I can for where God has allowed me to be. It is by God’s grace alone that I can bear these many and ongoing consequences. Much I simply cannot restore (restoration being the fruit of true repentance) although I would give anything to be able to restore fourfold all whom I have hurt in life. (Unfortunately it’s not monetary, so, like I said, it cannot be restored).
I say all that to say this. I read your post, and am glad that there is another person who is commending Brandt for such foresight and obedience! I also read your post about the Rooms of Grace and Pleasing God. Without a doubt I know that I live in the Room of Grace, saved by faith that was a GIFT to me! I know that Jesus paid it all, past – present – and future. It is because of THESE, this gift of faith that Jesus paid it all for me, and because I owed SOOO much (Luke 7:47) that The Room of Grace now encircles The Room of Pleasing God. Longing to hear, “well done, thou good and faithful servant” (Matthew 25:21) with Along with Paul in 2 Corinthians 5:9 I say . . . “Wherefore I labor that . . . I may be well-PLEASing to God.” And . . .
Do not entangle myself with this life’s affairs, so that I may PLEASE God.(2 Timothy 2:3,4) and . . .
Do good, share what I have with others, for with such sacrifices God is well PLEASED. (Hebrews 13:16) and . . .
Be a good steward of possessions and time, to serve Christ in these is acceptable – well-PLEASING to God. (Romans 14:18) and. . .
The Lord taketh PLEASURE in them that fear him, in those that hope in his mercy (Psalm 147:11)
So, you see, I do not see it as being legalistic when God’s Word gives me instruction on how to please God which is my avenue for SHOWING (not just speaking) my gratitude for SO GREAT a FREE salvation!
I do not labor for salvation, for points with God, for special merit or favors from God, but I do labor and obey to please him until he calls me home.
Let me know what you think of this. Maybe your definition of pleasing God is different; and works-points rather than the Biblical and Scriptural definitions and encouragements to please God.
I do pray that in your own obedience to stay with an unbelieving spouse (or acting as an unbeliever) that he will be sanctified by YOUR staying with him (1 Corinthians 7:14), and I pray for his salvation with fruit to follow that will remain! Hope to hear from you . . . In Christ’s love, your sister Lori
November 30th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
I just had some amazing devotions today from John 10-11. Jesus is not only our “life to come” but our “life right now”. It means that following Him is not a list of rules – but appropriating the life we’ve been given. It means that anything that deadens that needs to fall by the wayside.
I would rather live than compromise. On the other hand I would rather live than be legalistic. But where God’s Word is clear I follow it, and ultimately God because God and His Word are one.
(John 1:1)
Amazing how we can be transported back in time to the situations in the Gospels when we begin to take to heart their teachings.
I think if we did that more often, perhaps more people like Lazarus would be raised from the dead – physically and spiritually.
December 1st, 2009 at 7:18 am
Kim: I’m not sure the “right woman” will come along. I’m 35, lonely, angry, and single. I’m not angry at being single so much – I’m just angry at the world in general.
I was forced to break up because of my convictions. Truth be known, I actually really cared for my ex-girlfriend. She was a good friend and I miss her.
My life is being ruined.
December 2nd, 2009 at 1:22 pm
Hi Lori, and Brandt.
Real quick here, sorry I have not responded to you wonderful People.
I had some family emergancies.
Any how, Lori, I have to be more careful how I word things. (Thank you) What I mean when I was talking about the room of “Pleasing God” was, trying to please God with our works. God loves us and he is pleased merely by creating us. Gods wants us to understand that first. We are not loved by what we do, he just loves us, he delights in his creation.
With that said, we so please God with our rightous acts; with our serving him, serving others, etc, for sure.
Just like a Dad finds pleasure in his Son’s (or Daughter’s)accomplishments; achieving good grades, buying his first car, becomming captain of the football team, making the football team and so on.
But hopefully we love our sons, because there our sons (or daughters)We don’t make or expect them to win our favor.
I hope that helps clear up for you what I meant.
Brandt;
Wow my Friend, sorry u are hurting, chin up, when you are following the heart of Christ, you will recieve your blessings.
This will pass. Trusting God in your Lonliness/loss, in exchange for loosing your dignity/and possibly falling into greater sin, is counted as righteousness.
I can tell you love her. Think how God felt when he set these boundries up for you and I. He doesnt want us to be hurt by his protection. He hurts when you hurt…
He is right there with you, walking through the pain. He has great blessings for you. Just meditate on how wonderful it will feel when you are at the alter with your bride who is totally commited to God and everything you believe…..
Were you really forced to break up with her, or did you make a choice? A great but hard choice….God is proud of you…
Try to think and remember you are making good decisions, decision that have a profound impact. Heavenly!!!!
Hang in there….You can do this.
December 2nd, 2009 at 5:16 pm
Kimberly: Thanks for the encouragement. Yeah I agree. I’m not really angry anymore – just wanting to focus on God. I don’t know when the “magic time” will be for me to meet a mate
but I do know God has it in His hands.
Love in Christ,
Brandt
December 2nd, 2009 at 8:13 pm
I can only say Amen to all that Kimberly has said to you Brandt! Kimberly, let’s you and I lift up this dear brother in Christ as God brings him to our minds. Then what a great rejoicing we can share when we see him blessed beyond words with the person God has prepared for him, and prepared HIM for!!!
Oh, and yes, Kimberly, you did clear up what you meant; excellent sermon!!! Brandt, share again as the Lord leads. I’ll be praying, and I believe Kimberly will be praying as well!
December 3rd, 2009 at 12:18 am
Brandt….
I am so glad to hear you are feeling better!! God is good!
I hope that you all have a blessed day.
Thank you for you kind words Lori…
Love in Christ….
December 3rd, 2009 at 9:24 am
Okay, first of all, nobody FORCES these movies down anyones throat. Sure, I agree that it is nearly impossible to walk through the mall or Wal-Mart without seeing something about Harry Potter or Twilight. But think about this… If you start trying to dictate, in any way shape or form, what type of movie hollywood is allowed to produce, or start trying to censor what can be shown in theatres, or try to raise convictions of people because a book says that its bad for people to hear or see things like vampires or magic, then you’re also taking away what your “Father” gave you in the first place… free will. According to Christian (the majority here, not all) Faiths, mankind was given free will by God to say, speak, or act as he saw fit. Those actions have consequences, sure. But who are you to decide what is acceptable for a viewing audience when your God has said that it’s up to the individual? By what moral authority do you have the right to enforce God’s Will upon anyone? If God didn’t want people to go to these theatres and see these movies or rent them or buy them, then why doesn’t he do something about it? Obviously, he doesn’t seem to have as much of a problem with the mythological idea of “vampires” that people do. In fact, after reading and re-reading the bible, I don’t recall a verse sayings specifically “And thou shalt not drink the blood of animals or man”. Consider this, God put animals here to feed man. No matter how well you cook a steak, there’s going to be a bit of blood SOMEWHERE in the meat… So by that logic, God basically gave us the need of eating but also without a way to escape from having to drink blood… Hmmmmm…. sounds like good old King James did it again, another parodox in the Bible… The truth is it’s called imagination, and NO WHERE in the Bible is that forbidden. DOING it may be forbidden, but the movies that hollywood puts out do not send the message “Drink blood like Edward Cullen and you can be a vampire too!”, or “Wave a wand around like Harry Potter and be a wizard/witch and you’ll be just like him!” It’s called imagination people, and it’s a gift. Doesn’t matter how you look at it, imagination has never been banned by the Bible, whether it was in Ancient Hebrew, Latin, German, English, Old Testament, or New Testament. And the free will to view those things, to think about them, to read about them, or to imagine them was given by God, not too be dictated by Man…
December 13th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
Hey i like to see thoughtful discussion on this! Many of my friends seem to be into it, and so i’ve been thinking about it! and after reading what you have said, i just want to say, that was good! I just want to say, that The DEVIL will do anything that is within his power to kill and destroy us! this he does in a subtle ways! I believe that this is a excellent example of how the devil can influence the younger generation, into thinking that this “apple” can be so “delicious” and tricking us! THIS IS HOW THE DEVIL CAN GET US if it isnt one of the ways, than how else can he do it? its his last chance right?!?!?!?!? well all i have to say, is twilight is not something that will bring me closer to God so why would i indulge my self in the (GOOD AND EVIL) of the books/Movies…. i am possibly going against the majority in this possible argument, and that is something sad to see! For me and my household we will serve the Lord. and i dont even have a household, im a 19 year old young adult, that will not break to the devils devices which he has secretly placed for us to hopefully fall!~and i think this SEGA has a lot to say through the series about the tree of good and evil! The serpent was beautiful and beguiling, causing the first sin that coused this crap world to become what it is today!!!! the devil in the tree as a snake, seemed fine, but we all know that the end lead to death, and nothing to special for those poor folks that had to go make gardens in rocky soil!, and live in a dieing state! the twilight seems like it is getting worse, adding some evil as it gos, creating momentum with the youth, and teen pop culture. this is exactly what some one wants? but is it for our good? Please people who read this comment, this is our salvation, for the better or worse, ONE step in either direction!! …..good or evil… or??? good and evil, and isn’t the grass greener there!?!? i like the name, its beguiling! but i really like the beauty of twilight in its beauty as i see it every time the sun reflects its new dawning day, showing me that Jesus is their, and loves us!
I cant wait to be their with him! some day! can you? hmmm
If you hate what i said, im not in the least bit sorry…. JKJK i dont like to offend, thats mean… but yeah at least think about and be cautious of what i have just said PLZ>. JUST ROLE STRAIGHT EDGE WIt me! YEH yeh?? haha
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December 14th, 2009 at 2:10 am
Are you guys scared to trust God that he will provide you enough enterainment?
December 14th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
“Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
December 14th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
“…whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set My face against that soul that eateth blood… for the life of all flesh is in the blood… for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul… no soul of you shall eat blood…” (Lev.17:10-12).
Josh is right; dwell on pure, lovely, honest, just things. We absorb, assimilate, reflect and become what we see; if not, millions of dollars would not be invested in a 30 second commercial.
We will either obey God out of love in return for so GREAT and FREE salvation, or we will justify, grasp at straws to justify, twist scripture to justify, get as close to sin as possible to justify the insatiable appetite for gratification and entertainment.
December 14th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
WiccanMarine: I’m not sure about your faith but basically I understand that it teaches that there is white magic / dark magic. Mine teaches that all magic is wrong. We believe that there is an entity of evil, Satan / Lucifer, who wants to destroy humanity.
God never said that the individual should follow their own mind. In Romans God tells us to be transformed to the renewing of our minds so that we will not be conformed to the world.
I have no time to argue, as I am seeking to have the mind of Christ, and there is little time. I simply make the choices that lead to renewal of my mind. The other reason I don’t have time to argue is that my renewed mind tells me you are not the enemy. The one controlling your mind is. However, the war was won at the cross. Hopefully we both end up on the right side in the end. All I can say is, Jesus Christ can save you.
December 15th, 2009 at 11:10 am
TO:
Anyone curious about what the bible says about drinking blood..I don’t know what bible some of you are reading, follow this link and read the article… http://www.holyplan.com/2009/02/22/what-does-the-bible-say-about-blood/
Or, Read some of it below..
In the Bible, the soul is said to be in the blood because blood is so intimately involved in the life processes. (Le 17:11) But making the connection even more direct, the Bible says: “The soul of every sort of flesh is its blood.” (Le 17:14)
Blood was only used for sacrificial use in the bible. Shedding innocent blood is a grave sin.
Clearly, God’s Word treats both life and blood as sacred.
Should we not do the same?
When God told Adam and Eve not to eat the forbidden fruit,…was it their right to do so anyway? Could the same principal apply with the use of blood. God said not to eat the blood or to abstain from blood- Acts 15:28, 29
More on this subject
Gen. 9:3, 4; Acts 15:19, 20; Lev. 17:11, 12; Heb. 9:11-14, 22; Eph. 1:7
December 15th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
I was going to see/read Twilight (after hearing about it) but seeing reading all ur comments and drama has changed my mind. I don’t have a conviction not to see it- you could argue C.S.Lewis film Narnia has a witch in it so we must go judge the overall message however saying that some people will only watch 20mins + decide to b a goth/vampire yes this film will seduce some others it will have no effect others who think it’s had no effect on them will be affected 6 months to a yr dwn the line. The heart is deceptive + wicked above all things! Stephanie Meyer a Mormon- a christian well God knows + judges. But we must ask the Holy Spirit to give us wisdom. A heart that seeks God finds him! Will seeing the films; reading the books bring glory 2 God? I could write 2 essays on justifying + 1 on condemening! Apostle Paul says in all things we are to glorify God! I realise when I consciously think like this what i’m doin is never good enough + fallen short cause usually i’m too lazy to bother to bruised to move to that level but I still try when I can muster the energy! Our hearts are deceptive + wicked remember that whydo uthink the way u think we must aim higher + I must say I am ashamed that I could devote time to finish the series in a month but pathetically not the bible + struggle to read a whole chapter in a week let alone a month!xoxo
January 3rd, 2010 at 5:23 am
So I didn’t have time to read all the posts, and I don’t know where everyone is coming from, but I would like to say that unless the Bible has changed since the books and the movie came out, vampires are evil. They are demons, and are associated with the devil. And the Bible speaks very clearly on withch craft and things of this nature, and let’s not forget that it is a sex based movie, after all doesn’t Bella become pregnant with Edwards child? If I’m not mistaken they are also unmarried, I would less of a problem with her being prregnant if they were married. I think that we as Christians have to be so careful about what we accept as ok, we want so badly to be apart of the world today. But after reading Deuteronomy 18:9-12, it all became a little bit clearer. I also have to confess that I have not seen the movie, due to the fact that there are vampires and wharewolves in it, and they are evil creatures. So I get all my information from friends that have read and seen it and endorse it, and I have to say that what I have heard makes me glad that I have decided not to see it, or read it for that matter.
Anna Grace.
January 19th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
PLEASE be careful not to turn EVERYTHING, simple things into Devil worship. I’m sure, whether you approve of reading the book or not the author’s intent wasn’t to lure the younger generation into sin. I feel we have a very big habit to condem VERY quickly. It’s a turn off for those curious about being saved and what the Lord has to offer when we’re being so harsh about their previous lifestyle.
And the way sex (gasp) is being discussed is almost comical. Goodness, everyone is speaking about it as if it’s some horrid activity rather than the natural gift it is.
Sex is a subject in Twilight and Bella WAS married. They were on their honeymoon.
March 18th, 2010 at 12:22 am
Neicy,
Good point. We don’t know the author’s intent really until we sit down and talk with her.
I think it was Paul who said he didn’t even know his own motivations, so how could he judge others’?
And until we see a film for ourselves, we can’t really judge the content that we haven’t seen either.
The nice thing is that we have this place to discuss it and hammer out thoughts, ideas, etc.
March 18th, 2010 at 9:05 am
I just want to mention something that i have been learning in the past 2 weeks. I believe that there is good and evil. I also believe that there is 2 sides that are war’ing for souls. I think that God can use the bad for good, or the grey for good, but we have to see that there is that other side (besides good) that is striving for our souls, our affection, and everything. This almost doesn’t even have to do with “is this right” or “is this wrong.” This is about what our affection is on. If our constant focus is on things other than God, the devil has a easy way to get us and our affection. basically what im saying, is that the devil will use any method to get us out of our Bibles, and if it means a book, movie, or other method! then he will have at it! the nice thing to think about and be glad and all happy about, is that God is on our side, and he is WAY stronger! But just remember that were your heart is there you may be also….
March 18th, 2010 at 11:05 am
It’s nice to see people being able to have a conversation and simply discuss things without bringing our the swords and fire. I’m happy there is a community such as this one striving.
And I also agree Josh. How wonderful that we serve such a mighty God!
March 18th, 2010 at 3:37 pm
In relationship to Nicy, I did do my research and found out that she was married when she got pregnant. But however when teenage girls are cheering when their favorite guys in the movie take off their shirts, thats called lust and lust is sin! Yes or no? I don’t think that Christains understand the danger of these books and of these movies, I did my research and I wrote a paper on it. I would love to send it to you, if you read it. We do serve a Mighty God, and HE commands us to flee unclean things and vampires and warewolves are unclean! Lust is unclean, was it not also Paul that said, flee youthful lusts, and maybe I’m wrong but cheering when a guy takes off his shirt is LUST! Correct if theres a verse that backs these and movies up, I dont think that there is.
Respectfuly subbmitted,
Anna
March 18th, 2010 at 7:06 pm
In response to Angela, the Bible says that we are to avoid ALL apierance of evil! Vampires are evil, I have heard things that make me wonder what has our Christian world come to that we justify our entertainment, let me ask you a question and please be honest, would you consider that murder is ok in some cases? or how about porn? Would you have consider looking at that to be ok? I would hope not, when guys take off their shrts it is immoral, and agian we’re told not to have anything to do with immorality.
Anna
March 18th, 2010 at 7:13 pm
Vampires are from the devil!
March 18th, 2010 at 7:15 pm
I am not married as yes I do see intimacy as a gift, but when we miss use and abuse it, then that is a problem. I’m sorry if I’m coming across judgemental but this is very dangerious, and no one seems to understand that! I have seen so many young people fall and this movie has been a big part of that. I know that a lot of people are going to say that sin was in thier hearts long before that, but you dont understand that this movie has done a lot of damage to young people, and I am a young person, and did have a desire to see it until I did my research! I know that I cant convince you, that’s not my job, that’s the Holy Spirits job!
Anna
March 18th, 2010 at 7:22 pm
Josh,
there are no grey areas in the Bible do your research and look up veres. You find that there is an answer to everything!
March 18th, 2010 at 7:25 pm
I don’t beleive “a guy taking his shirt off is immoral” in certain settings. It is important to be conservative and realize our bodies are not for show and tell, but our bodies aren’t wrong. Adam and Eve started out bare, God clothed them not because of the nudity itself, but because of the sins it implied. I don’t beleive showing skin, such as situations like at a beach in a bathing suit or such, is immoral.
Yes; be wary of temptation and lust! But do not cringe or be afraid of your body and the way it is.
And I’d love to read your report! What a creative topic to do a report on!
March 18th, 2010 at 8:48 pm
Anna,
Please define grey area, because I often hear from fellow Christians that everything or most things are Black and White. Unfortunately it’s a terrible argument especially about scripture when we use the terminology “Black and White”. In fact, can anyone tell me where in the bible the phrase black and white is used?
If all the answers are in the bible, then can you tell me why my parents lost a child when he was 8 months old.
Respectfully,
Adam
March 18th, 2010 at 9:25 pm
everyone listen to Matisyahu. Random I know. But I am tired of Twilight…lol.
March 19th, 2010 at 6:22 am
No, Adam there are things that we as humans cant explain, but we can trust to know that Romans 8:28 is true, and that God has some plan although I dont know what it is. If so I would know why my mother has had breast cancer twice. But I know that evil cannot fight evil, and that demons dont war agianst demons. I wish I could tell you more, but as I search this out in my Bible the less I find that I know. I’m sorry, the closest I’ve come to that is my Mom having cancer and her having six miscarrages. I have come to God in prayer, and yes at times I do feel like I’m only one in a million voices calling out to HIM but then I rember that He cares for me, and I mean more to Him then a sparrow and He does so much, I cant arrgue with anything that He does, because of everything that He has done for me. He sent His only Son to die for me, so that I can live, so your eight month old brother can live. With everything He has done for me, I find it better to live on the side of cation. I’m sorry that I offended you, that was not my intent, I dont have all the answers but I do know the ONE that does.
Respectfuly
Anna G.
March 19th, 2010 at 9:11 pm
Song of Soloman was wriiten from a husband to his wife, and I believe in cortship, I am a very conservitive Christian, and so I do have a problem with a guy standing over the bed of a young woman and watching her sleep, I’m sorry but I would hope that my Dad would have a problem with that as well, I would love to send you my paper, let me know how I can do that, it was a hard paper to write because it’s so conterversial[?] and so it has been very hard to hand it out to my friends, and people I love. The idea for me, about a guy taking off his shirt is a big deal, not only do I respond to what I feel, but what I see as well. I often have to remind my brothers in Christ about that, and most of them already know it, and the other guys just the attention taht they get when they do it, and that IS WRONG. I’m sorry, if I come across to conservitive, but that’s the way I was raised and it’s the way I am. I am a Pastors daughter, and I cannot be a stumbling block. If that means that I cut out what I watch so be it, I have to many people watching me. Do you understand where I’m coming from, and I have to much at stake, with the young kids at my Church. We are a very small Church, and so everyone knows everything about you, and they know better then you know yourself, and I love that about my Church and I wouldnt change taht for the world. Now Adam and Eve, they were created perfect, and so to be unclothed they didnt know what we know, they had no reason to be ashamed, and when they sinned they tried to hide and they tried to fix it, all by themselves and we still do that, and they blaimed and justified their sin. And so their not a real good example in my book, and I’m sorry if you think that I’m being to picky. But romance is ok, when it’s done the right way, and Romans 7:1 is the right way, I recently watched the previews for the new moon, and it’s freaky. I cannot even begin to discribe to you the dreams I’ve had, and the dreams I’ve had eplained to me. The woman that wrote this is a morman and momans are not Christians, they are not going to Heaven. They are going to hell, what bothers me is that no one has tried to contact her and tell her of the danger that she is possing, and she is going to lead young people astray. I’m not sorry that I’m so passionate about this,I hope that you can understand that I have to spreak out, and I’m protect my ‘Family’ if you will, and that these kids that used to be godly good kids have fallen and are in the world and I cant talk about the stuff that’s gone on with them.
Anna
March 19th, 2010 at 9:36 pm
Hi Anna! You do not need accolades from me, as I know that YOU know your reward is honoring Jesus Christ, but I cannot help but support every word of what you have said and the stand you take. This is not an easy place to be. You will be persecuted for righteousness sake. I do not believe any of these types of movies or books glorifies our Creator/Father, or leads anyone to Christ. There is angel of light deception woven throughout! – including the seemingly harmless (when this culture instead of God’s Word is the standard/measuring tool) sexual innuendos. If you have a way to contact this Mormon author; it may be that you are the one God would use to present to her the Truth. Again, I support your stand and your views on this issue and pray you never compromise, for the glory and honor of Jesus!
March 20th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
This is a very interesting topic. I came to this site to see what types of Christian movies were being made and accidentally stumbled upon this thread. Twilight in particular doesn’t really interest me, but the Christian stance on movies in general does. I’ve actually been living in Los Angeles for the past 3 years pursuing an acting/writing career. About a month ago, I was overcome with a strong desire to rededicate my life to God and through that, lost my strong desire to continue with the pursuit of my career. I’m now in the process of moving back to my home state. My feeling was that as children of God, who’ve accepted Jesus Christ, if we are truly SAVED then, we should be willing to and WANT to surrender everything to Him. The Bible says to do ALL things to glorify God. I just didn’t see how I could be involved in any of the movies that are being produced here and glorify God at the same time. But I have people, even Christian family members, telling me that acting is a job just as anything else and that being on sets would give me opportunities to witness to people just as working at the local grocery store could. So, this has got me conflicted. But then, I think most jobs outside of the entertainment industry contribute to society whereas the entertainment industry simply comments on it. Given the way celebrities are looked at, being involved in something is in a way their endorsement of it and whatever ideals it represents. I don’t necessarily think it’s wrong to act out something sinful if it is acknowledged to be wrong and is not glorified, but I’m still confused about this. I know firsthand though that it takes time to cultivate a career that allows you to be picky about the projects you do. This leads people to compromising their beliefs and doing things they wouldn’t do just to build up a resume. One big argument on here is “Are we just not supposed to watch any movies?” Maybe. The phrase “Idle time is the devil’s playground.” comes to mind. After all, God didn’t create movies, men did. There are only 24 hours in a day. On average 8 of those are dedicated to working. The rest to other life necessities. Is spending two hours watching a movie really making the most our time to benefit God? I’m not calling anyone out, as I enjoy tv and movies myself, just thinking out loud. People say the world has just evolved and our lives today are different than the lives of Biblical figures. That’s definitely true, but I honestly think our progression and technology are our greatest downfall. I think the Amish have it figured out! The reasons we’ve progressed so far are for the most part in the name of sin. The biggest reasons, greed, money, and power, go hand in hand. And if you think about it, a TV is just a device to justify and aide in being lazy. Which is a sin. The Bible also says to work with your hands. Acting hardly qualifies. I dunno. It’s food for thought.
And ADAM, your are being a bit ridiculous in asking if anyone can point out the term “black & white” in the Bible. You know it’s not in there. But if something IS black and white, it’s validation of being such doesn’t come with the declaration that it is. Does the Commandment Thou shalt not lie need to need the phrase “This commandment is black and white” after it for you to know it is black and white? As for why your brother died so young. I don’t know. I don’t think we’re supposed to question those things. That is almost like asking ‘Why are we here?’. Someone put it like this. In order to good, one must also know bad. Patients wouldn’t be a virtue if everyone was patient. Character is formed through our struggles and adversities.
March 24th, 2010 at 3:10 am
Hi Chanler,
Great thoughts; I can tell you’re really processing things.
Before you toss movies out as “something God didn’t create,” well, He didn’t create cars, or houses, or all kinds of stuff we use every day. He created capacity in mankind to be creative.
When we read the Bible, it’s telling God’s story and mankind’s place in His story. What better way than movies to tell stories?
Being involved in a film is not condoning someone’s lifestyle choices. I work for an Internet company – does that mean I condone and support internet porn? No.
I’d suggest that you connect with some of the Christian networks in Hollywood before you toss everything out and leave.
Hollywood Prayer Network
Actors Co-Op
Arts & Entertainment Ministries
The Beacon Ministry
The Biola Media Conference”
The Bridge Entertainment Fellowship”
Media Fellowship International
PRISM Hollywood Fellowship
Premise
So there’s no lack of people to connect with and ask these questions of.
March 24th, 2010 at 7:57 am
i do like what you just said!
also to the why do people die young, and things like that, i believe that God doesn’t control things like that. He can, but maybe it could be Gods test for you? look at poor Job in the bible, many of his sons/daughters died, all to try and see if he wold give up on God! i also think that God wants us all to see that we are free and have freedom to do good, or to do bad, that is why he cannot control things to always be good, or bad for certain people. i don’t know if what im saying is making sense, but i do know that bad things have and will still happen to good people, and if anything, it should draw us closer to God.
March 24th, 2010 at 7:59 am
i ALSO want to say that there is many ways to serve God in the movie industry, in FACT there is MUCH need for good christian movies, and contrasting bad with evil i believe is ok. movies like FlyWheel, Fireproof, facing the Giants, and many others should be inspiration, to get into something like that and create a movie, and beware, because pride/greed and all that does tend to take the focus off of God, but if you can create movies that can change peoples lives and have it get into a movie thetre than that’s awesome! NOW twilight has no christian influence while watching it…
March 24th, 2010 at 8:03 am
Thank you Lori, it does help to know that there are people of the same mind. I have felt like at times that I should just give up, and keep my mouth shut, but then I remember 1Tim4:12. And I am young to be doing this, and saying things about this and researching and arguing with older people about this, but then I remember that we are called to live differantly and when I think about that then I am encouraged about this.
Thankyou,
Anna
March 27th, 2010 at 5:41 pm
Can I ask a question?
One: If you pay to watch a movie where a man and woman have a immoral relationship are you paying them to do it? My answer is Yes, because the money goes to the actor{s} and actress{s} that commit this sin. We are paying them to sin, and we allow it in our home.
Second: IF we view a movie like this does that make those who make the movies think that this is ok, and that {even as Christians} these are the types of movies that we like? Yes, beacuse agian we pay them, and what we are paying them for is the entertainment that they provide. Just think about these things, and pray about it.
Third: If this os ok, why justify it?
Anna
March 27th, 2010 at 5:51 pm
To whomsoever posts these views;
Why wasn’t my views posted? This is now almost a week ago, and since then I’ve noticed the same people posted again regarding
Twilight the movie. I didn’use profanity or any other perverse
language, but maybe you don’t want to hear or allow any of the
other readers to read a loving opinion. So if you are not afraid please post it already. I would appreciate it, and GOD
will truly Bless you. Thanking you in advance.
March 29th, 2010 at 9:23 pm
Laura – your previous comment is #30 on this blog post. Try doing a search on the webpage for Laura D. and you’ll see it about 62 comments back.
If you read through all the comments, you’ll see that all kinds of opinions are expressed here on many different sides of the question.
Thanks for participating in the discussion.
March 30th, 2010 at 9:33 am
This whole discussion is just a little strange. First of all Who ever said the books are “occultic”… they’re about fictional creatures with superpowers right? Edward is sort of like spiderman… blessed with strength, cursed with loneliness and responsibilty. No one in the books even LOOKS like the occult stereotype (what people foolishly assume is black hair and baggy pentagram sweatshirts or some teenie fashion nonsense)… they all look and act slightly paler J. Crew models. Hysteria about witchy things helped hang innocents in Salem a long time ago and has 3 west memphis born innocents in jail right now….
Also…Why are people so obsessed with Twilight anyways!? Give it a break! If you don’t think your kid should watch it that’s ok they’re not missing that much… but QUIT TREATING IT LIKE A HOLY WAR. Everyone thinks Christians are complete idiots because of those of us who rant and rave about harry potter and the simpsons and the lion king and metallica or whatever… AS IF those are important cultural battles…
I probably wouldn’t let me kids read this stuff either…I read all 4 books (to keep up on the next phenomenon and cause they were pretty fun
) and there are two basic reasons I would steer my kids away from reading/watching twlight:
1. Bella is not a good feminine role model/the book is sort of mysogynistic in general. Edward is so unbeliveably attractive and smart and honorable and kind that Bella forsakes everything to submit herself to him. This hearkens to a violent form of male/female relations that has oppressed women for thousands of years. Yes, Edward is an exemplary boyfriend… Christians and others would probably agree… but I just don’t think its a great idea to so strongly reinforce male centered models….
but actually whatever… I will just talk to my kids about it if they ever read Twilight and make sure they distinguish fantasy and reality… that should take about 20 minutes.
2. Also… Twilight isn’t that good… its not really enlightening or artful. Its exciting like a TV show… but it misses alot of aesthetic marks for me. I’m going to try to steer my kids towards higher quality diversions… alot popular things like Twilight, Harry Potter, Christian rock bands, empty praise song lyrics that everyone loves… you know whatever.. popular things… can usually be happily avoided.
I don’t know… guess i’m guilty of ranting too but COME ON
PLEASEEEEE do something else for your kids besides take on this holy battle with twilight. Many those that oppose it so vehemently here seem to have no idea what they’re talking about and are going to instill harmful prejiduces and tendencies to judge others harshly in their kids… ENOUGH
why don’t you just read them and discuss the negative parts together and be informed, Christian people. or whatever
April 5th, 2010 at 1:41 pm
Having opinions is not much of a holy war. Facts in God’s Word clearly reveal the truth.
April 8th, 2010 at 4:09 pm
Vampires are evil! I dont have as much of a problem with the lion king, as I do as Harry Potter and twilight. And people think that Christians are idionts because they believe in Christ not because they argue about Bibical things. And if it’s not that good why are you defending it?
April 13th, 2010 at 8:09 am
I’m not defending Twilight so much as pointing out a trend I’ve noticed in the Evangelical world: picking inconsequential battles (ie. the evils of twilight or something) instead of focusing on real problems. I understand entertainment is an important topic for discussion for those of us with kids, but the ignorant ranting about it on this forum makes christians look bad. Vampires are evil??? They’re not real! Look at the evil that has people stuck in the highrisk, low income areas of our American cities. Look at what the coca-cola corporation is doing to the world. Look at hate and violence and injustice.
Listen to the world a little better and realize that believing in Jesus is not what most rational non-Christians criticize the Christian world for. We’ve got alot of other problems. Taking an uniformed stand against something benign will have two consequences: 1. further isolate us from the world and weaken our chacne of ministry 2. distract us from real issues.
Quit reading about Twilight and read about this latest american war for ONE example… perhaps with an open mind God will reveal where REAL evils exist.
April 22nd, 2010 at 1:58 pm
Just because something is not real it doesnt mean its ok or harmless, and did you stop to think that the resession is God trying to teach us somethin??? Our Nation has turned away from Him, look the evil that we as Americains do everyday, abortion is the leading cause of death in our Nation! So if you want to talk to me about go with something moral. Or do you have no morals? Twilght is about vampires which were folklore demons! Duh that’s about as evil and satanic as we’ve gotten so far and it’s going to get worse if we dont stand up and say anything. And as a twenty one year old I am taking a class on why people dont beleive in God, it isn’t because of the arguments most of the time, it’s because of unwillingness to beleive that there is Someone greater then them. Are you a Christain? Answer me that
Anna
April 22nd, 2010 at 3:06 pm
REAL VAMPS AND CULTURE IDIOCY
Hey, not weighing in on the “Twilight” issue too specifically as a movie. It’s a piece of cultural crap. Whatever. The main issue though is that vampires are real. People living that lifestyle and into the occult have been on Tyra Banks, etc. The question is as Christians where do we draw the line?
The concern is not so much over movie convictions as it is over the bad ideas of our culture that we buy in to. People get angry at this for some reason. “Don’t take my music / movie / TV show away. I won’t watch it for the kids sake, but I can watch anything my mind tells me to cause I’m just that holy and won’t be influenced.” In a non-legalistic way may I just say “This is B.S.?” Whatever – interact with culture – but be aware that what you watch DOES influence you.
Continually bad and anti-God ideas DO influence. But as I set my mind on things above I am less angry at this. Because – whatever. Time will prove those whose minds are being renewed and those whose minds aren’t. People will continue to find healing and be set free. And that’s what it’s all about. So Twilight – ha, whatever. Media is often a joke. A bad one, but a joke nonetheless.
Why else would David say that he wouldn’t put any unclean thing before his eyes? The diet of the heart – out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks.
April 22nd, 2010 at 3:39 pm
Following Jesus = Good times. Compromising = Poopy times.
April 22nd, 2010 at 3:41 pm
Amen I hear you loud and clear!
April 22nd, 2010 at 4:33 pm
It’s hard to stand on shifting sand,
Anna
April 22nd, 2010 at 4:34 pm
First of all… Anna, what would cause you to question my Christianity? For the record I am a bible believing Christian saved by Jesus and proud of that. What about what I said seems to clash with the teachings of Christ, my desire to be internally transformed, or my desire to help transform the world? Ok, so your professor has said that people are mostly reluctant to acknowlege a higher power… how is telling them they are evil for reading Twilight going to help that??
Also, Why do you question my morals? I’m talking about defending innocents too! Please don’t look at my point of view, see that its different than yours and dismiss me as a pagan or enemy or whatever. Its wrong, a little hurtful, and sad.
Also you say that books about folklore demons are “as evil and satanic as we’ve gotten so far.” I’m not too sure about that. The devil sends false prophets in “sheeps clothing” (matthew 7:15). I would contest that people who wield political power, power in churches, and power in television and media are the one’s who’ve spread sentiments of greed, selfishness, violence, intolerance, isolation, and ignorance that are afflicting American culture. I also look at our economic system as relying on the disenfranchisement of millions (but that is a much longer discussion).
What about American complicity/ignorance of child labor across the world?
Or domestic slave labor?
There are worse things than kids reading Twilight which is a fantasy full of some pretty conservative values. And if one should decide to completely ban their kids from the books… Whatever! That makes sense to me. Brandt- your point is very well taken, the Bible is clear that we should strive for purity in thought and purity in mental uptake. Especially with children!
But to me the Biblical mandate to “be transformed by the renewing of your mind” (Romans 12:2) suggests more than avoiding bad Media. We are supposed to NOT conform to the world and actively discern God’s will in this renewal. “The World” isn’t Twilight and tv and barnes and noble… “the World” is a conglomeration of economies, nations, leaders, interests, laws, etc. Let’s not make it look like Christians are scared of everything and ignorant (because it is indeed ignorant to eschew Twilight because it features fantasy vamprires which are completely different than that new age blowhard “real” vampire with long hair we all saw on Tyra). Let’s realize that Christian ministry will not be furthered by drawing a clear line in the sand between Christians and non-christians. Let’s actively seek which “worldly” political agendas need Biblical Christian support and prayer.
Just please, we need to stop thinking that by taking strong stands against secular fads we have completed our duties as Christians. Some of us will be better never having immersed in the world of Twilight (i guess… i mean its no worse than an episode of lost or watching lord of the rings)… but this cannot be a defining issue in our lives. Its confusing to people who aren’t Christians that are watching us. And MOST IMPORTANTLY its a terrible distraction from some really important things going on in the world.
April 23rd, 2010 at 9:25 am
PS. anna, I’m sorry for not responding to your point that God is teaching us something with the current economic hardship people are facing in the nation.
I agree this is a real possibility!
But is it because kids are reading harry potter and twilight and watching hannah montanna?
or could it be that Starting in the late 70’s an immense greed and lack of morals caused people to do all sorts of stuff that I don’t understand in the stock market that put us in a very precarious situation. People were making billions of dollars that weren’t really based on anything real. This strains an economy.
How about Goldman Sachs handing out 3.3 billion bucks to their people last year?
Or could it be that we are in an unjust war?
Or could it be that all of the clothes we wear are made by people stuck in factories getting slaves wages?
Could it be people driving hummers and rubbing their finances in everyone’s face as their car shreds the ozone??
Abortion is a controversial topic, but yeah maybe that too…
now i actually have to say that I don’t believe that this is how God works… that the recession is a punishment… because then I would be forced to look at every natural disaster as a punishment. And our omnibenevolent God just would not do that. He wouldn’t punish millions in south east asia with a tsunami. And i really don’t think he’s punishing the US with a recession.
but even if he was! there are a million other reasons he would do so besides twilight… and focusing on twilight distracts us from them!!!
there are alot of things America is doing wrong…
April 23rd, 2010 at 9:39 am
also… in re-reading my posts I’ve seen some sarcasm and a sort of negative tone. That’s uncalled for and I’m sorry. I beg you to ignore those as my human weakness and read the content of my posts, which i really care about. I think the church in america is ready for renewal that might go along the lines of starting to think about things differently like i’ve tried to do in these posts.
like i said i’m just a weak human. But i’m a christian, and I am trying to put my opinion out there because I think its right… just like all of us in this forum.
thanks for the discussion.
sincerely,
Nik
April 23rd, 2010 at 9:42 am
Wow…Niklaus, can you think of anything positive to say about America?
April 23rd, 2010 at 9:48 am
Hi everyone,
Great conversations and discussions going on.
Just want to remind us all that the purpose is not to tear down others or to question others’ motivations, beliefs, etc.
The Apostle Paul said he didn’t even know his own motivations, so how could he imagine he could figure out others?
Let’s do discuss our ideas and thoughts, but avoid personal attacks. If it would feel harsh to you, it probably feels harsh to the other person.
April 23rd, 2010 at 10:01 am
Adam-
I love the United States of America. Its an amazing privilege to live here. But I think every Christian would agree it needs some serious change. I was simply stating some of the areas that I see having the need for the most change. Why is that you have asked this question?
April 23rd, 2010 at 10:05 am
Not that I think that America is perfect, far from it. But I did notice only criticism in your statements about America until your last posts.
April 23rd, 2010 at 11:01 am
oh ok… well… I’m talking about some problems i’m seeing… not writing the pro’s and con’s of America. So, you’ll have to excuse that I guess.
April 23rd, 2010 at 11:10 am
First of all what makes me question your Christianity is that you are looking at the circumstances in the world and not at what is Eturnal and holy. My ‘Professor’ happens to be my Sunday School teacher and he has studied all religions and was not looking for Christ when HE found him. I’m not telling people that THEY are evil but that the book is! Satan sends both ‘wolves in sheeps clothing’ but also as demons, I wrote a paper on this in case you’re wondering. I also conjure that you have a problem with authority. There is an ocult where kids are practiceing this, I also think that you are reacting because you are convicted.
I agree that we are to be transformed, {Rom12:1-2} and these books are not the renewing of Christs mind. ‘You cannot eat of the Lords table and the table of demons, you cannot drink from the cup of the LORD and the cup of demons.’ If you do your research you will find a lot of verses that tell us what to do about this series. Did you know that the woman that wrote this series is a morman? Or does that not matter? I know that you must find me as a thorn in your side and I’m sorry. If we are to be renewed then why is it that Twilight is ok? Where is te differance? If we conform to the non-Christians thinking then what do we have to offer? My answer is nothing, if we are exactly like them then why should they change? What’s confusing to people that are not Christians that are watching us, is that we have no posistions what about gay marriage? Do you feel that we should just let that go by?
Respectfully,
Anna
April 24th, 2010 at 6:55 pm
In response to could it be that our Country has taken a turn for the worst because of Harry Potter, Hannah Montanah and Twilight? Or the 70’s? It’s because of sin we have turned from what our Founding Fathers started, and we have turned our backs on God. That’s what I think, but that’s only my two cents you can take it or leave it.
April 24th, 2010 at 6:59 pm
I too love my Country Adam, and I hate to see it burn! Last night, I woke up in a cold sweat having nighmared about my seven year old neice who had told a friend at School that she is a Christian and that she loves Jesus and that they tried to kill her and so I had to help her and my sister-in-law and my brother to get out of the Country. I woke up crying the thought that my family would have to leave and that a day is coming when we will be killed for being Christians and in that My Country that I love so much will be gone.
Anna
April 24th, 2010 at 7:06 pm
Thanks Angela, it’s good to hear that.
April 24th, 2010 at 7:07 pm
I love my Country too, and I do agree that we need some change like the abortion problem and I love my Country and the evils of it is why God has given us over. When I see Red White and Blue I feel such pride, and theres nothing that I love more then to see my flag wave in the wind.
April 24th, 2010 at 7:11 pm
anna,
I am suspicious that you’re just messing with me.
If that’s the case… hahaha… you got me…
If that’s not the case and there is nothing but sincerity in your words… I apologize for my incredulity.
I’ve said you’ve got no reason to question my Christianity because of our difference in opinion. I was just saying what I was thinking and we began a discussion which isn’t going anywhere. I guess I thought it would turn away from Twilight and to some of the stuff I brought up but you feel very strongly about avoiding these books and other things that you think that the Bible specifically speaks out against. And in all honesty I respect that. I can understand that you consider ANY impurity of thought or input to be detrimental and the Bible does seem to say that at times. But also Twilight is a kids book and it does NOT teach people to hate Christians and it does NOT tend to lead people to satan worship.
I guess i just believe in more cultural assimilation to be more balanced citizens and relational Christians or something…
What do you think about my saying that there are a host of other issues that Christians need to be vocal about? But MOSTLY… what do you think about my idea that fighting battles against Twilight has more potential to distract us and isolate us than it does to lead us to devil worship?
Let me just respond to one line of your responses when you essentially call me a hell-bound non-Christian because I am “looking at the circumstances in the world and not at what is eternal and holy.” Don’t the teachings of Jesus seem to suggest that we should care alot about what is going on in the world. You’ve mentioned a concern with the abortion issue… I’ve mentioned some different concerns.
So… Once again I profess my Christianity.
Will you please consider accepting that a person with my views could be a Christian??
Will you take back what you said about my faith??
Sincerely
Nik
PS in answer to your questions
- Yes I knew the author is Mormon… a religion that also recognizes the evil of demons. The only thing about the books that could seem influenced by Mormonism is the very conservative views of sexuality. So no, that doesn’t matter at all.
-If we are to experience full renewal of my mind I think i said before… that, hey, maybe twilight wouldn’t be ok… but probably mmmmost other things would not be either if i were to hold myself to that level of strictness. But your point is well taken here.
-I’ve never suggested a complete conformity to non-Christian thought. Just simply sharing some thinking with them so that the OTHER things we think (like about Jesus) will be wayyy more attractive. Its not like we’ve got nothing to offer or have rejected Jesus if we, for instance, take a stand against an evil war. But should we read twilight? Maybe not… maybe moral restraint against such things will attract people. Its possible. I just really don’t think so.
- What about gay marriage? I don’t see this as relating to anything else. I have somewhat of an opinion on this one but its not important to the discussion.
-
April 27th, 2010 at 11:10 am
I feel very strongly because I have seen so many young people efected by this, and think that I’ve posted that befoore, I dont know if you’ve read that though. I have seen so many young people go astray and I’m not willing to see any more, and it all started when this series came out, I’m soory that you have a problem with me standing up for what I believe I think that parents need to be concerned. I recently talked to a friend who just started his first year of college, he is a very strong believer and I greatly respect him, and he told me that he has been apalled at what he’s seen with Twilight in school, he brings tears to my eyes as he stands agianst it, I wish I could be like him, he is so compassionate and passionate I have seen tears come to his eyes in love. I wish I had that passion. That’s why I feel so passionate is because of the people that I have known that have fallen not because of my friends stand, I had it first because I knew about it first.
What I dont understand is what you said, about impurity being talked about by it’s sometimes talked about in the Bible
And you’re right it is a kids book and I think that is artly why it is so dangerious. Kids are so easily swade to and fro. People will pick out what they want to, and there is an occult based on Vampires and I think that we as Christians do no war agianst the flesh but agianst demons.
Your statement about cultural assimalation and relational Christians I dont understand.
Ok, there are some issues that Christians maybe should be more concerned with like gay marriage and abortion but I think that we have comprimised and allowed many things in to the Church and in to our lives that shouldnt be there. I think that the woman that wrote the book needs to know that Christians wont stand foor it, and that it is evil your not, but the book is.
I did not call you a hell bond non Christian and if you felt like I did I’m sorry that was not my intent. I meant to remind you what the Bible says about worring about the world. I cant think of anywhere where Jesus says that we need to worry about what’s going on in the world. I did mean to say that you are not a fellow believier I meant to ask you what is more important this world or Heaven? Nik you seem like a very scard person.
Do you consider me narrow minded or brain washed?
And finaly your last statement disturbs me, she is a morman. if she were to die tonight she would go to hell does this concern you? It should, but if we accept these books and these movies how can we say that we are any differant then she is after all she believes that she is a Christain.
Respectfully Anna
ps I think that the Bible is very clear about impurity. It’s sin, and the way that Bella and her boyfriend(s) act is impure I have to see the movie or read the book to know that.
April 27th, 2010 at 3:46 pm
what has your friend seen of Twilight in college? Adults who are taking these books seriously is sort of hard for me to imagine.
and Its just not even close to true that there is an organized, occultic group of devil worshippers that get their ideas from twilight. where did you get that idea?
also… how do i seem like a scared person when you’re the one who is convinced there are Twilight cults walking around the streets at night. or that reading twilight might take a nice christian kid and make them a black lipstick wearing, soul sucking, vampire.
also you really don’t think Jesus has anything to say about the well being of the world? It seems to me like alot of the stuff he said had to do with how we should act as humans with other humans and within a system of humans with power. he is also always talking about care and compassion. Also, just following example, we see a person very concerned with the world and very knowlegeable about the world.
nick
April 28th, 2010 at 10:16 am
You wouldnt believe it, but there are adults who take it seriously.
And the occult may not be based off of twilight but it’s enough for me to stay away, and it’s a scarry thing dont you think? It’s not that their walking on the streets at night, it’s that the devil is using this to steal our young people. Remember that I have seen first hand the things that this has done to my friends, I have a friend that has a sister that has been visited in dreams by Edward dont you find that creppy? I do, I also find him immoral, and just plain evil.
I think that Jesus is more concerned about the Spiritualality of the world,Nick I’m not going to convince you and you are not going to conivince me that Vampires are ok, and that Twilight is harmles, if Mrs. Myer is so against demons as a morman then why does she use them and do you know where she got the idea of this book?
Anna
April 29th, 2010 at 12:02 pm
Nick how old are you? Do you mind if I ask, and are you a young man or young lady?
I don’t meaan to offend you, although I think that I have.
What subjects would you like to talk about besides twilight?
Anna
May 3rd, 2010 at 2:47 pm
I haven’t read much of what anyone has written here. I am only going to give my personal opinion about the Twilight series.
I am 40 and enjoy both the books and movies. I don’t feel that they hold anything that would be spiritually damaging to others since it is in fact “fiction” and is sold as such. The writer herself,to my knowledge, isn’t an occult practices, she’s just a fictional writer. Unlike the writer of the Harry Potter series of books, and because of that fact alone, I will never read one book of hers.
I find Twilight no more damaging than The Lord of the Rings, Chronicles of Narnia, Shrek, or most Disney films for that matter.
It is just a story of good against evil and the love between 2 beings (like Romeo and Juliet). The characters are merely “FICTIONAL”. If you believe otherwise, then you have issues of another sort.
God gave us an imagination, I enjoy using mine and thoroughly enjoy reading others.
People who are against these kinds of books mentioned are reading too much into things. You can’t go around chasing demons around every corner, what a stressful and judging way to live.
Vampire’s don’t exist, they came from the imagination of a one person long ago and they were derived of a good versus evil concept that shows us how we can conquer and triumph.
Who doesn’t love a story about the noble prince rescuing his princess. Every girl/womens unrealist imagination of what a man should be, but isn’t. That’s the fun in fiction!
May 14th, 2010 at 8:05 am
Cheryl: Here Here. We need more guys to be creepy and watch women sleep through their windows. To tell them they can’t get the scent of them out of their heads, and to share with them that they want to devour them. We need more guys to take women away from their environments and into self-absorbed weird cult like groups.
To the women who fall for this stuff…I say go at it. You get what you deserve. The circles that I hang out with have women who want guys who are strong, not creepy, and balance that with giving them their freedom to be who God made them. That is a healthy partnership. At least in my view. But who am I to say if a “stalker” can meet a girl’s “unrealist” imagination? You make a good point.
Funny how “noble” can get twisted to mean something entirely different.
Also the whole “unrealist” imagination thing is used by guys who watch porn. Some women in porn meet their “unrealist” imagination. We’ve been sold a bill of goods people. None of us are saying that fiction is bad. We’re saying the message is bad. Deal with the real issue. Or are you too afraid to?
Well I’m off to chat with my friend – who’s not into this creepy stuff. Intelligent, witty, beautiful. And French.
May 14th, 2010 at 12:27 pm
Overanalyzing, not surprised in the least.
Way to pound the gavel and thanks for categorizing as well.
May 14th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
You know the point of my opinion was… Christians are taking things far too seriously, OVERANYLYZING EVERYTHING. You can take any object, sport or show and spend more time with it than you do with God. Boy, you can say the same of this for World cup soccer, there are far more fans involved in that. So let’s hammer them for it!
The difference for me is that I am NOT “obsessed” with Twilight, that’s where the line is crossed when you put something else before Christ.
I like it no more than any other book or movie I have ever enjoyed. I don’t take everything to heart. The teenage girl’s are into it because the movie introduces a pile of cute guys and the book swoons over how gorgeous he is. Of course they are gonna swoon.
Stalked? Don’t put words in my mouth and twist things to make people look as though you are brighter than they are and never speak for Jesus, He does not need ANY ONE’S help. He is our judge, we don’t answer to you, nor to we have to live up to any of your standards on what you call normal. This is why Christians are shunned by people. Too many have gavel in hand.
I am not making Twilight personal. You are making it personal.
I don’t even know why I am wasting my time explaining myself to you. You are above NO-ONE!!! You seem very narrow-minded.
You won’t be hearing from me again.
May 14th, 2010 at 1:14 pm
So Brandt, if it’s about the message, which one are you sending?
May 14th, 2010 at 1:27 pm
I won’t be hearing from you again? Man, I was just saying to myself “What a privilege to hear from Cheryl!”
Oh well.
On “overanylyzing”: Over analyzing is actually two words. And it’s spelled “analyzing”. Not “anylyzing”
And how is just repeating scenes from the book/movie over analyzing? What if I repeat a play by play from Game 7 in the NHL playoffs? Am I “overanylyzing” then?
On World Cup Soccer:
Yes, Cheryl I was actually slamming you for being a fan of something, just like people are fans of World Cup Soccer. That’s what I was slamming you for. You got me!
Speaking for Jesus:
Never said you were “Obsessed with Twilight”. Just said it’s basically an unhealthy movie. I saw it actually. I don’t pretend to speak for Jesus. But does that mean I should have no discernment? Because often the people who are just trying to have discernment are accused of “speaking for Jesus”. And the people who are fed up are not allowed to be. Bump that. How do you even know I’m a Christian? I never mentioned Jesus.
Your personal issues:
I never said anything personal about you regarding Twilight. What I meant to say is the “model” sought after is unhealthy. In classic philosophy this is called an unhealthy “form”.
Narrow-minded:
Right…and that’s why you completely didn’t respond to any of my takes on the book movie, which I watched? What is this George Orwell’s 1984? I’m narrow-minded regarding the occult and anything really associated with it for sure. It’s not an insult and I don’t take it that way.
I won’t be hearing from you:
Somehow I doubt this. People like you have a way of needing to have the last word. For me I know I just like to say everything on my mind. That’s the point. I have a mind and I need to say what’s on it. But if you need to string some more words together be my guest…
May 14th, 2010 at 1:41 pm
Adam: I don’t know what message I’m sending. You seem pretty postmodern. How do you interpret it? Have a nice weekend.
May 14th, 2010 at 1:42 pm
Cheryl: Also about categories – That’s what I do – put things in logical categories – good, evil, foolish, wise. But then again, you wouldn’t understand.
May 14th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Brandt: Well sense you asked; where is the grace for Cheryl? Both of you need to take step back and know this message board is not worth the sacrifice God paid for us. You can disagree, but please try and do it respectfully.
May 14th, 2010 at 2:01 pm
Adam: What are you trying to say? First you said “Sense” you asked. It’s “Since” you asked. Secondly, what does “This message board is not worth the sacrifice God paid for us” mean? It’s a message board! It’s not a person!
And really, where is the concept that Jesus was sacrificed so that we could compromise and envision Him as a vegetarian hippie who never had conflict?
I think Cheryl summarizes it nicely by saying “I haven’t read much of what anyone has written here.” Of course. Why would she? Unlike those of us who have maybe seen the movies, heard the opinions, and made our conclusions, and THEN provided our opinion, she simply wants her opinion heard.
But that’s typical. Blame someone else for reading too much into something, and then read NOTHING of what those opposed have to say. Welcome to 21st century Christendom where everything is excused under the banner of “grace” and “tolerance”. Excuse me, I think I’m going to throw up now.
May 14th, 2010 at 2:21 pm
Adam: And, yeah, I probably do need more grace, but I don’t think you’ll be defining grace for me. I’d rather do that thoughtfully and from a biblical perspective.
May 14th, 2010 at 2:27 pm
Adam, Cheryl: Yeah sorry. Completely different opinion than you. Not sure that’s wrong but sorry for the personal attacks. Not a good time right now for me to be on this site.
May 14th, 2010 at 4:21 pm
I kinda backed out of the discussion for the simple fact that, well my opinion is kinda set in: I don’t think Twilight is damaging to the majority of people and certainly hasn’t had any effect on my faith.
As far as obsessed goes, to what extent? The way the term is being used it sounds as if their suddeny prowling NY streets for Vampire cults and jumping from tree’s thinking their Edward. If these friends were so easily drawn into the occult world from this book, something else is going on besides the books influence. Even from a non-religious stand point, if you read a book (especially a clearly fictional one. We’re not talking about a political, question your faith, DiVinci-hides-codes kinda book. It’s a book found in the teen section.) and completely lose your sense of reality, it’s something more than the book. The way “obsessed” is being thrown around is making it sound as if 80% of people who have read it have gone to the “dark side” and started chanting in the corners or something. Babbling on and on about how hot the characters are and having posters plastered on their wall is annoying, but not deadly.
May 15th, 2010 at 12:05 am
Brandt: I really didn’t want to come back….No worries, God Bless!
If I can start over to whomever chooses to read this. Seeing as I am illiterate
I am sometimes not understood clearly:
First, if my opinion offends you, I am sorry, I don’t mean to.
I was just sharing my personal thoughts on how I personally feel about Twilight.
For the past 2 years my sister in law had been bugging me to read the books, because after watching the first movie at her house, I thought it was a bit boring. I am Christian, so the immediate mention of Vampire raised the tiny hairs on my back. I envisioned something like Bram stoker’s Dracula or something horrific like that. I finally agreed to read the entire series so I could at least have a proper and fair opinion to share. I read all 4 books in 1 week. I couldn’t’t put them down. I enjoyed most of the characters and found it very interesting. The fact that I knew I was reading fiction was the main focus to continue. It was refreshing to me to see how she used, what was known to be a cold blooded killer (conjured up by someones imagination in the past), as an example of what a struggle it is to be good. What I could see (as an example for me) while reading these books was the struggle as a Christian and as a person in general, but that is just what I got out of it personally. I can separate myself from the evil view of the man made name/character, Vampire. They are not real, people are, and we were all born into sin. So what I took away from this is that even though it’s fiction, I just love the good vs. evil concept where good triumphs over evil and even the fact that they have to fight against themselves to control themselves from doing bad, much like Christians. We struggle not against flesh and blood, most of our struggle is internal. This is what the Cullen’s do, they struggle against what the mind wants, to do what is right.
It’s all fun, I don’t agree with getting obsessed with it. That’s where the line between you and God get crossed.
Please, completely disregard my opinion if it means absolutely nothing to you.
May 15th, 2010 at 7:06 am
Cheryl: Yeah, actually I get you. Trying to do what’s right, struggling against the evil nature.
I’m just not into anything associated with the occult. There’s this crazy Tyra Banks show, and other information that I have that point to vampire covens, etc. throughout the States. That and the whole onslaught of occult books for teens makes me pretty nervous. The vampire / witch trend is really taking off right now as well as wiccan and pagan concepts in media, etc.
I think that’s where kind of the understanding has to be, respectfully. I saw the movie and got it. Of course at no point in the movie are the vampires completely “redeemed”. That would make Meyer an evangelical and not a Mormon.
The good news is that we as Christians can completely trade in our old natures for a new one. But even so, we seem to constantly be doing that or struggling to live in the new reality and the Bible backs that up in Romans. So yeah… I’ve just had some pretty brutal arguments on this.
I think as long as people get that there’s a lot of bizarre occult stuff including “fictional” literature out there for kids / teens, and that we need to be really discerning in this crazy world, I’m willing to lay down the wooden stake so to speak.
The problem is – most people these days turn their minds completely off. They buy into whatever agenda a movie may have at the time. Which – you probably get by the sounds of it.
So anyway, I’m trying to put the pieces back. I’m sorry. Take care.
Brandt
May 15th, 2010 at 8:32 am
Hi Brandt:
Nice to hear from you again.
Great points there!!! I completely agree on that. People have taken the Vampire ball and ran with it. They are taking full advantage of the Vampire publicity and twisted it back to it’s original crap that it’s always been before Twilight and glorifying the evil in it rather than any good at all. Vampire Diaries, True blood, Moonlight and the ridiculous ones of the past: Buffy, Angel..then there were the movies and they just keep on coming. There are so many troublesome movies without Vampire themes as well. Harry Potter being one of the worst for kids in my view. The lady who wrote the books is a Wiccan (or whatever they are calling themselves, a.k.a. blinded). Dangerous!
May 15th, 2010 at 8:52 am
Cheryl: Thought you might like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XFGW8eFKJc&feature=related
also feel free to email me at bzig 74 at sym pa ti co dot ca
No spaces, at is @, dot is .
May 15th, 2010 at 12:34 pm
Here’s one I love to use for myself, often :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5AkNqLuVgY
May 16th, 2010 at 1:32 pm
Brandt,
The Bible does talk about silly woman who are taken away by creepy men,and it doesn’t speak nicely! But oh well , I hope that I am never seen that way.
Anna
May 18th, 2010 at 11:23 am
I have read all four book and watched all three movies. I am a christian. I think the movies are some of the most decent ones we have right now-rarely any foul langage, no sex before marriage, dealing with consequences of our actions-bella getting grounded for lying, falling in love-I believe this hits home for a lot of people. This is something that we have went through or are going through. I took my little 15yr old cousin to see eclipse. There was a scene where Bella wanted to have sex but edwards like no-I want to wait until we are married. I am old fashioned-I’m from the time where I like to court, meet the parents etc. I think that is very honorable especially in a time where sex before marriage is so common. I do pray that my cousin watching it will realize she doesnt have to settle and that she will wait until she is married. How many movies out there really show all of these good qualities? I know some kids are totally getting into the vamp thing-thats wrong but I so think God can and is using this movie to benefit his kindom. We each have to do what we believe God is directing us to do so not everyone is going to agree with my stance on this. I personally feel that I can watch this with a good conscious. Now if breaking dawn holds to the book i think the movie will be good-I hope and pray that theres no inappropriate stuff such as nudity-I really think they will keep it honorable
July 11th, 2010 at 6:41 am
I am WELL aware that this response is a tad on the late side but I’ll share my .02 also. First of all, I will say that if I wanted to look/be like the “people of this world,” I would have stayed in the downward spiral of sin where I dwelt until 8 yrs ago. However, because I accepted Jesus into my heart and surrendered all to Him (and commit myself to reading God’s word & getting to know Him for MYSELF & NOT others), I am compelled to live a life that would mirror His & His teachings.
Because of my PERSONAL beliefs/convictions & interpretations of the Bible, I see absolutely NO need for indulging in this type of “entertainment”. A few earlier posts implied that it’s “harmless or just fiction” which is farthest from the truth & a device used by the enemy, because he knows what you like & are likely to indulge/partake in (in the name of innocence or cleanliness) and will appeal to you in that manner. I only chose to comment on this topic because I had an interesting (but not too convincing) conversation w/2 young ladies from my former church who were ABSOLUTELY head over heels in love w/the Twilight series (1 of whom is the Youth Pastor’s wife). The initial question that popped into my mind was “what kind of example are you setting by endorsing this type of movie?” and to teenagers nonetheless, who are in search of personal identity and a sense of belonging (another slick yet predictable trick in the enemy’s arsenal). Sorcery, witchcraft & its “near kinsmen” are ALL spoken against in the Bible (Leviticus 19:26, Jeremiah 14:13-15, Galatians 5:19-21, etc.) along w/greed, lust, etc., which is (based on my interpretation thereof) the purpose of this discussion board. True, you may NOT become completely overtaken or effected by the subtle undertones of this or other media forms of its type but remember, the earth wasn’t established/inhabited in 1 day (& neither was Rome). but over time, things (opinions, beliefs, etc) develop then, when the Spirit of God opens your eyes, you begin to wonder why (& when) you (began to) think or behave in a certain manner. Just a thought.
@ Anna:
I, too, have strong convictions about that which I expose myself to. True, it can become a bit of a lonely journey but 1ce we’re reminded that God is on our side, things become so much clearer because we’re living for Him & NOT the world. Remember Jesus’ statement “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple”? That cross DOES get heavy and the road lonely @ times, but God gives us strength to withstand it & the repercussions that are sure to accompany this commitment to God.
The new wave of “conforming Christians” & the church becoming/looking more like the world who partake in this & other CLEAR Biblical contradictions slightly bothers me but I am NOT the 1 to judge. I’m only called to help them to see the error(s) of their ways & pray that they repent & turn from them. In that lesson, I no longer discredit the opinions of others when/if they differ from mine. I simply agree to disagree and (hopefully) share the same love that Jesus would, although it CAN be a bitter pill to swallow @ times.
July 23rd, 2010 at 9:25 am
I agree 100%. Not to be condecending, but I agree. I also want to just add and say that if twilight is ok, then harry potter is ok, an I can rationalize anything, all I I want. What we look at becomes thoughts, thoughts become actions and actions character, what we are is character and who we are is Gods own. what we become is our God given freedom. God doesent want want something good or us, he doesn’t want something better for us, he wants why is BEST. If a teen kid (ME) can see this, I think we all know what is, (with due kindness ment) – painfully obvious.
July 23rd, 2010 at 10:50 am
Harry Potter is a whole different ball park. The symbols and images protrayed in thats story are clearly and purposly boasting things that we’re not suppose to be involved with.
July 23rd, 2010 at 6:51 pm
@Neicy: What makes Harry Potter, with its blatant magical & sorcery imagery, any more detrimental to a person’s spiritual well-being than the Twilight series with its “subtle” images of vampires, werewolves & such? That’s like trying to compartmentalize or put degrees on sin, which is a common error of the human sort, whereas God sees ALL sins as equal (except blasphemy against His Holy Spirit, which He calls unforgivable).
Instead of trying to always find good in evil/that which we KNOW we should avoid, why not stand boldly for Jesus & either call a thing wholly evil or wholly good? I understand clearly that God has the power to use ANYTHING for His glory BUT, if He is convicting you in your spirit to stay away from that thing but a “but” pops into your mind, you’ve disobeyed His Spirit by rationalizing a situation because you *subconsciously* saw your will as more important than that of God. He won’t condemn you but He will show you the consequences of your decision & give you the opportunity to repent.
I’m not throwing stones w/out having looked in the mirror @ myself FIRST because I’m convicted by & guilty of the things that I spoke of in this & my previous message. But Matthew 5:13-14 pops into my mind about the people of God being the salt of the earth & if we lose our flavor/position of influence in this world, we, in essence, will be of NO good purpose to God or men (in trying to win their souls back to God). That last statement is CRYSTAL clear with all of the Christians who profess to be avid followers of Twilight or other movies/media like it.
July 24th, 2010 at 7:07 am
Whether you agree with Twilight or not it wasn’t made for evil intentions as Harry Potter was. Which makes it a complete different debate for me.
July 24th, 2010 at 3:04 pm
As were the days o Sodom so are they in the end days.
July 24th, 2010 at 3:15 pm
The Twilight phenomenon bothers me because in the area where we live, it isn’t “just a book” or “just a movie”. With these young girls, it is an absolute obsession. When they get together, it’s basically all they want to talk about. And you have 9-12 year olds reading this stuff and seeing the movies. Maybe they weren’t Stephanie Meyer’s intended audience (I don’t know, only she knows that), but they ARE reading/seeing this stuff at an age where they are not fully understanding the underlying theme, which is causing more questions and arousing more curiosity in regards to physical relationships. My daughter has been constantly pressured and criticicized because she is not “in to” the whole Twilight thing. But so far she has stood her ground firmly (and usually alone amongst her close female peers) against it. We didn’t want her to fall into the moral bog that Twilight has created, so we talked to her about it and have encouraged her to not be involved. In the end though, she has to make the decision for herself, and I have been proud of her for standing her ground against not only Twilight, but many other negative forces that are facing her and her peers today. She, like any of the rest of us, is not perfect, but I hope and pray that she will continue to make informed and thoughtful decisions, and to also realize that there are many other real-life battles in this world to be thinking about than arguing over just one book or movie.
Thank you for your kind attention in reading & considering this post.
July 27th, 2010 at 1:53 pm
@Paul: Amen!
@Mommy T: I agree w/you to a point. As believers of God, we NEED to impress upon as many people as possible (believers AND non-believers) the potential danger that they are putting themselves and those closest to them in by partaking in the hype & (subtle) deception that surrounds this movie & other art forms. if we see our brother(s) or sister(s) going down a potentially fatal path and we turn a blind eye to or change the subject on them then, according to the Word of God, their blood will be required of us because as members of Christ’s body, we are (to a great degree) responsible for keeping 1 another on the right track.
I’m NOT suggesting that we beat a dead horse and ignore the other, more overt evils that run rampant but whenever the Spirit of God moves inside of us to speak up/out against wickedness, then as much attention as that which is necessary SHOULD be directed to that thing.
Before I forget ;o) I want to applaud you in raising a free-thinking young lady who (seemingly) doesn’t mind standing out & alone for that which is right. Continue to encourage her to be the fearfully & wonderfully made, peculiar INDIVIDUAL that God has created her to be. Be blessed.
August 5th, 2010 at 11:45 am
Hey guys I just heard from a friend of my Dads that Stephenie Myers just renounced her belief in mormanism
August 9th, 2010 at 2:02 pm